The death penalty and religion

And I have a right to try to stop you. I like our system just fine, CP is applied rarely and in the most extreme and aggravating cases which is perfectly in line with what the CCC calls for.

BTW, I started the new thread. I made it intentionally very provocative. I apologize in advance for the vitriol, but I'm airing out my frustration:'

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-lefts-misguided-view-capital-punishment.html

 

First off, I would like to make it clear that I never said I was against the death penalty, but was against it in MOST cases. Until the very recent introduction of maximum security prisons, we did not always have the capability to keep the criminal from doing no harm(other than executing him of course). Back in the old days, it was better to just kill them. Now that we do have the capability to protect the criminal from the rest of society, the need for the death penalty is practically obsolete. But the Church realizes that this determination should be left for the state to decide. We the people though need to make sure they don't use it too frivolously.

 

Nah. They take it as "what I think my society should be, normally-speaking".

The only thing in their favour is that there are still more of them than there are of people who think their particular brand of propaganda is pure tosh.

On the matter of the death penalty, kill them, I say. They'll just die of some other cause otherwise.

 

But with the death penalty, for a state to have it and use it, is in obedience to God. Gen. 9:5-6

So, to try and oppose the death penalty is to go against something God has established.

Quantrill

 

All you ever quote is the Old Testament. Why do you keep pretending to be a Christian?

 

If you are Jewish and have not heard of the new covenant with Christ perhaps. We are not sanctified by the old laws any longer. Just as in Acts when the controversy of circumcision arose. There were many Jewish converts that claimed that the gentile converts had to follow the laws of Moses. But it was clearly decided that, that was not the case.

 

Sorry. You misunderstand the Bible. Not everything in the Old Testament has been done away, in the sense that we are no longer responsible to it. The Mosaic law has been done away with. But the command to Noah, from whom the rest of the people will come, has never been revoked.

So, don't confuse the Mosaic Law with everything said in the Old Testament.

God gave the death penalty. Jesus never revoked the death penalty.

Quantrill

 

Matthew 19:18

 

Is this supposed to mean something?

This is in response to the question by the rich man concerning obtaining eternal life. 19:16 " Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"

To which Christ responded, "...keep the commandments." 19:17

To which the rich man responded, " Which? " 19:18

To which Christ responded, "Thou shalt do no murder,..."

This is simply the law restated by Christ showing that if a man can keep the law he will obtain eternal life. It is not a revoking of the command given to Noah and mankind concerning the death penalty.

Quantrill

 

The position of the Holy See, therefore, is that authorities, even for the most serious crimes, should limit themselves to non-lethal means of punishment, as these means "are more in keeping with the common good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person" (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 2267). States have at their disposal today new possibilities for "effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself.» (Cf. John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, n. 56). source: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/s.../rc_seg-st_doc_02111999_death-penalty_en.html

http://youtu.be/nl3zDbMnz7E

 

Well, Gen.9 says the 'holy see' is wrong.

Quantrill

 

Your are not able to convince him from anything. It's only a kind of intellectual (s)wordfight for him. Nevertheless I find this text very beautiful and I guess I understand why you took it. It's for sure one of the most beautiful textes of the bible. I'm asking myselve often what had happened if he had not asked Jesus Christ a second time.

http://youtu.be/ePba9WxdUdQ

 

Everyone is wrong because you are the only one who is right, isn't it?

http://youtu.be/mPDRLO17RLM

 

If your wrong, your wrong. If your right, your right. Concerning these things we are discussing, the Bible is what dictates who is right and wrong.

If you don't know the Bible, then there is a good chnace you will be wrong in your use of it. Including the Pope.

Quantrill

 

Again: What's the concrete name of your church?

http://youtu.be/MB5n0jM_Hys

 

you're wrong (in more ways than one).

 

That is not important.

Quantrill

 

Why isn't it?

Tonight's Gospel reading at Mass:

The church seems very important!

 

Did I say the Church is not important? Are you so illegitimate that you must twist what is being said?

So. You have a reading at Mass. And that is supposed to impress?

Quantrill

 

It is impressing - because this mass shows exactly your dilemma. What do you need more to change your wrong way?

http://youtu.be/oyal6HUA8YE

 

It's strange that you should want to keep your ecclesiastical community a secret! Seems totally contrary to evangelization and Jesus command to "make disciples of all nations." Is there something to be ashamed of?

The Mass is rife with readings and citing the Bible in the prayers, in the responsorial psalms, in the responses given to each other as we participate in worship together. It is very beautiful and very Biblical. So, yes--the Mass is impressive.

 

I am a Christian. That is enough for you to know. There is nothing contridictory about me being a Christian and evangelization. I do not witness to someone to become a certain denomination. I witness to some to believe on Jesus Christ.

I am glad you enjoy your fellowship of believers. I never doubted you didn't. However, it is not necessary to tell me your going to mass.

Quantrill

 

Do I have a dilemma?

Quantrill

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx3nTsFJEQE"]Gospel This little light of mine - YouTube[/ame]

You don't seem to have a problem with disparaging some Christian denominations. That is a contradiction to what you say above. "You know them by their fruits."

 

I am quite willing to argue against any error I see in any Christian Church or group. Including Catholic or Protestant. That is not 'disparaging' as you say.

Your accusation of contridiction makes no sense.

Quantrill