The debt is proof of our wealth

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by GodTom, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. GodTom

    GodTom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How sick and twisted is this? Did the US congress even vote on this? Were the American people asked about this system?

    This fiat money system is slavery.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  2. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism is in crisis worldwide, so this is going to get worse. More complications; more harm to people; more poverty; more wealth and income disparity.

    Capitalism is based on a system of compound growth. But it is not sustainable because a system cannot just go on growing endlessly. And this one is at its useful end.

    Growth was fairly legitimate until about 1970 with continual increases in productivity and consumption. Then growth slowed and profits were shored up with a credit economy. Consumer debt tripled from 1970 to 2008. Then the debt economy crashed. Meanwhile, real income has been flat since the 1970s while productivity, and corporate profits, and wealth and income disparity skyrocketed. Then business moved overseas for cheap labor to keep boosting profits. Now corporations are merging again to reduce redundancy and funnel that savings into profits. But there is nowhere to go now. The only thing left is to launch an all-out assault on workers, and that is what congress is doing with the tax scam and austerity.

    Either we get off our collective butts and get out into town halls and into the streets and SCREAM and let politicians tremble in their boots, -which they will, -or buckle up cuz it's gonna be a rough ride.
     
  3. james M

    james M Banned

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    American people don't know a thing about monetary policy so thank God they are not asked about it!!! This is common sense.
     
  4. james M

    james M Banned

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    yes the liberal got another one right!!, especially in America where we have 130 million smart phone super computer toys at $140/ month, in China where 700 million just entered the middle class, and India where growth averages 6% a year. the best situation in human history is a crisis to liberals!!
     
  5. GodTom

    GodTom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't forget that was paid with communist credit...
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  6. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    If you are in debt, you are not in profit.

    Your wealth is decreased not increased.


    The more wealth you have the more willing people will be to lend to you. So yes great debt is indicative of great wealth.
    But also it is indicative of greatly diminished wealth.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  7. james M

    james M Banned

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    that?? what is that?? and why does it matter if that was paid with communist credit???
     
  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Nor did Friedman, see quantitative easing and also Thatcher's recession.
     
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  9. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Slavery = this.

    [​IMG]

    And not this.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Debt occurs to countries where market-economies are functionally in disequilibrium. When a country borrows more than it is capable of producing (in terms of goods/service) it formally goes into "debt".

    The question is "Why does it not come out of debt?" The short answer is because the dollar is a reserve-currency.

    Countries like China, but certainly not only China, like to hold dollars in reserves - which is why they buy Treasury Notes. And they keep them. And they keep them. And they keep them.

    Then, one day, countries wake up and think, "Hey, how long is this going to last?" They do that often, especially when a crisis of any nature is afoot.

    For the moment, nothing structurally devastating has changed mentalities. But if something does, Uncle Sam is nosediving into a hell nobody really cares to foresee. And, when that happens, the Chinese Remnimbi becomes the "money-of-choice". So, the Chinese start selling their debt? I predict this WILL happen. (In fact, it already is happening because China is increasingly indebted.

    [​IMG]

    When that happens, boyz-'n-girlz, you don't want to be around cuz all hell will break loose in America. What is the forecast in light of our historical debt? See here:
    [​IMG]

    Whoever made that curve projected it rising. Why? Because America is not downsizing its debt. Why?

    Ask your fearless leader, Donald Dork - who has a long history of not paying his debts and is dancing-in-delight of the fact that he has reduced corporate taxation thus enhancing the national debt* ...

    *And YOU are going to pay the difference that will be taken out of ObamaCare to balance the budget ...

    PS: Look at the US debt infographic. Notice that it took about 20 years (1945 to 1965) to bring down the WW2 debt to a sustainable level!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  11. james M

    james M Banned

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    Chinese economy is more socialist than ours so is less stable thus this won't happen. If Chinese started selling debt price would decline so they can afford to do it. The more they have the more insurance we have. And even if they did sell it so what?
     
  12. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    It has nothing to do with the money system and everything to do with how the money system is utilized.
     
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  13. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    And how will the socialism you advocate (i.e. worker self directed enterprises) alleviate the crisis?
     
  14. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, otherwise the government wouldn't have had to criminalize the possession of gold in order to stamp out natural money.
     
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  15. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Capitalist businesses require growth to survive. Socialist businesses don't.
     
  16. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    No. Neither capitalists businesses nor WSDEs require growth to survive.
     
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  17. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Correct.

    Debt ridden governments who are unwilling to reduce their spending, require taxation growth to survive. They operate a Ponzi scheme.

    Growth is required not by the businesses themselves, but the socialists who prey on them.
    Either taxable revenue's increase, or....austerity.
    And austerity doesn't get you re-elected.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  18. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Bunk. A corporation MUST make a profit and grow to make sure they stay in the lead and don't fall victim to buy-outs and anti-competitive practices of other corporations.
     
  19. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    No, they don't have to do that, no more than a WSDE has to do that.

    Both are private, for-profit firms. They both play by the same capitalist rules.
     
  20. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Incorrect.

    I used to run the village shop. It has never grown.
    Been going for generations. Still going today.

    No growth required, it is a sustainable business.

    Same goes for the village pub and garage and local farms. All sustainable profitable businesses.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  21. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    @Kode just hates businesses. Well, any business that isn't a WSDE.
     
  22. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Economies of scale.

    Some businesses seek growth to capitalise on economies of scale.
    Others don't.

    Economies of scale cut both ways.

    The local plumber does not have to be part of a national company to compete.
    He does not need the infrastructure or advertising budget, because he can get all the work he needs to make a profit already. He would earn less profit in such an arrangement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And irresponsibility.
     
  24. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gold standard?
     
  25. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they MUST do that or the alternative is to be gobbled up or out-done by competition. On this point you are completely wrong. Shareholders must be kept happy or they bail.
     

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