The Democratic Socialists of America Have Actual Political Power. What Will They Do With It?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Space_Time, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. amartin7889

    amartin7889 Active Member

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    They'll probably waste their political capital talking about microaggressions, trigger warnings, and white privilege.
     
  2. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    there is not an imaginary Bernie socialist country that is much different politically than the one you live in right now because Bernie has never suggested in major changes to the constitutional republic structurally. That means if you know how a bill is passed right now, you will know how Bernie wants it passed too. If you know how a court justice is placed on the courts right now, you will know how Bernie wants him placed too. Now if you paid attention to my wording I never suggested I wanted a socialist platform as public policy. I said I wanted socialist answers as part of the cornucopia of options available on the table alongside the free market conservative, and liberal ideas . I don't want their ideas or vision dismissed out of hand.
     
  3. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What would their ideas and vision be? Lay it out there for us uneducated.
     
  4. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    These traitors need to be imprisoned for their treason.
     
  5. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I will do one better for you. I will encourage you to become educated. I was forced to notice that before you actually read about Bernie or the DSA, you had already made some wild and ignorant guesses about how he or the DSA intended to change the basics of our constitutional framework for government. I also noticed that there is understandable confusion between Democratic socialism and Social Democracy. You tend to make some faulty assumptions including that Bernies ideas would be exact duplicates of the DSA platform.

    It is important to read critically before you make hasty statements. First I introduce you to... Critical Reading and Reading Strategies. https://www.skillsyouneed.com/learn/critical-reading.html I want you to pay attention to the following
    "Both reading and thinking critically don’t mean being ‘critical’ about some idea, argument, or piece of writing - claiming that it is somehow faulty or flawed. Critical reading means engaging in what you read by asking yourself questions such as, ‘what is the author trying to say?’ or ‘what is the main argument being presented?...Critical reading involves presenting a reasoned argument that evaluates and analyses what you have read. Being critical, therefore - in an academic sense - means advancing your understanding, not dismissing and therefore closing off learning."

    So now that you know how to read prose critically. Lets introduce you to some prose on these topics. Here is a rough historical overview on DSA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America . Here is one on Social Democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy Here is a summary on Bernie Sanders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders_presidential_campaign,_2016 It tells you what he thinks in objective fashion.

    It is always smart to read about the subject from material written by the subject. Nobody knows exactly what the DSA believes, better that the DSA does. The same is true of Sanders and Social Democrats. That way you won't be as likely to make the mistake I mentioned before of guessing. Before you start, you have to understand that these website is very biased because the subject writes about itself. The writing is designed to persuade the reader as well as inform him. Another word for this form of writing is propaganda and you have to be wary of spin. http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism . https://www.facebook.com/Social-Democrats-USA-80319810737/ Bernie Sanders also has a website and it is important that you learn about him separately. https://go.berniesanders.com/page/content/join-us/

    Now every time you find propaganda written on one side, you are likely to find propaganda written on the other side. these sites are not very friendly to their subjects, and are designed to persuade as well. It is always important to seek balance when you learn from biased websites. Remember those critical reading skills are you move foreword. http://elenaives.com/2011/04/05/bernie-sanders-socialist-liar/

    Now I have personal favorite essay that attempts to provide an overview on how Democratic Socialism, social democracy and Bernie Sanders personal views collide, and integrate from the Salon. http://www.salon.com/2015/10/21/the...ndidates_mould_breaking_political_philosophy/ I will quote a paragraph for you.

    "Now, it is important for Sanders to explain to the people what he is and what he is not. Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist, and does not argue when reporters leave out the first word, as they tend to. But in reality, Sanders is less a Democratic Socialist and more a “Social Democrat.” The Scandinavian countries that Sanders rightfully praises, such as Denmark, Sweden, and Norway, are Social Democracies. These countries have strong welfare states (another term that has been demonized through dog-whistle politics), which means universal healthcare, free college tuition, a well regulated market, etc. These countries are still very much capitalist societies, just with rules that create a more even playing field. Democratic Socialism, on other hand, is the belief that both the political and economic spheres should be run democratically. It is important to note that Democratic Socialism does not want to replace corporate ownership with state ownership, and is critical of state bureaucracy as well as corporate bureaucracy."
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  6. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    No, alas - no-one could make up the insane and totally criminal acts of conservatives over the generations. Think of those they've killed through colonialism, opposing socialism in almost all European states, murdering under Hitler to remedy their crisis, and under the State Capitalist tyrannies of Stalin etc they so bloodily established to prevent socialism. Read some history and politics, kid - it clears cloudy brainlets.
     
  7. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for your post. Will read tomorrow some of your sources. Have a Texas Hold -em tournament tonight.
     
  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    This, 100%
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "Establishment" consists of the Oligarchs, the political wing and those high up in the civil service often referred to as the "deep state".

    The Political wing of the Establishment is red and blue. It matters not which party gets power, the main agenda of the Establishment gets done.

    Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to figure out what that agenda is.

    Clue: it has nothing to do with giving more power or wealth to the people or limiting the power of Gov't.
     
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  10. SkullKrusher

    SkullKrusher Banned

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    1st on the agenda is to make sure everyone on Earth is fed, clothed, has shelter, and healthcare and a $1000/month guaranteed income of credits.

    2nd: transform all education into an internet education system free to all.

    3rd: Build the outer planetary defense ring to shoot down any incoming asteroids.

    4th: Solar energy powered vehicles to replace all combustion engine vehicles by 2050

    5th: Robot labor and Computer AI replacing necessity to work other than for reason of entertainment

    6th: Human habitats to be built on the Moon and a spaceport for future migration to Mars.

    7th: Controlled birthrates to prevent overpopulation of humans on Earth.
     
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  11. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

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    Here's more:

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/29/a...l-revolves-around-one-police-union-organizer/

    An American flag pin next to socialist logo (Photo: Shutterstock/PunkbarbyO)
    America’s Democratic Socialist Party Is In Turmoil, And It All Revolves Around One Police Union Organizer
    Photo of Thomas Phippen
    THOMAS PHIPPEN
    Reporter
    7:21 PM 08/29/2017
    Share19
    One of the country’s largest socialist political organizations is in turmoil after electing a police union organizer to its national committee.

    Former law enforcement union organizer Danny Fetonte was elected as one of 15 members of the National Political Committee of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) in early August, and it didn’t take long for various groups to criticize the former cop-friendly union organizer.

    The rift in the DSA threatens its burgeoning political influence, gained after organizing behind former Democratic presidential primary candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, a self-described socialist, and as a reaction to the election of President Donald Trump. The DSA boasted 25,000 members leading up to the August convention. (RELATED: Democratic Socialist Group Claims To Be Largest American Socialist Group Since WWII)

    Just before Fetonte’s election, the convention body assembled in Chicago, Ill., and approved resolutions supporting the abolition of prisons and police forces. Fetonte worked with the Combined Law Enforcement Associations of Texas (CLEAT), an officers union, after retiring from the Communication Workers Association and volunteering for former President Barack Obama’s campaign.


    Somewhere in the controversy, a rumor started that Fetonte was an actual cop, not merely an organizer for police unions.


    Numerous chapters of the DSA have disavowed Fetonte’s ascension to the committee. The steering committee of the New York DSA chapter released a damning statement of no confidence in Fetonte’s leadership Sunday, specifically criticizing how he handled disclosure of his work with law enforcement during the election.

    “Given the strong stances within DSA on police and prisons” that were discussed at the convention, Fetonte should have better disclosed his work with Combined Law Enforcement Associations of Texas (CLEAT), the New York DSA steering committee said.

    The dissatisfaction with Fetonte also has a racial element, as he worked with police unions aimed at gaining a “monopoly on violence.”

    “As socialists are well-aware, state violence disproportionately targets and brutalizes Black, Brown, indigenous, and LGBTQ comrades with impunity, and is, by its nature, hostile to working-class interests,” the New York steering committee’s statement said.

    “Mr. Fetonte’s failure to disavow his work in police union organizing has already strained our partnerships with organizations from the Black Lives Matter movement and his continued presence on the NPC threatens to damage them even further.”

    The DSA Veterans Working group posted a petition Aug. 18 to press Fetonte’s resignation, and it has garnered thousands of signatures.

    The petition states that the group will refuse to pay dues to the DSA if Fetonte does not resign his position by midnight Wednesday.

    “Members of several other organizations fighting for racial justice and equality have also voiced concerns over Mr. Fetonte’s election to the NPC, including allies in Black Lives Matter. His continued presence on the NPC impairs DSA’s efforts to partner with and support these and other organizations, and harms the fight against racist oppression,” the petition reads.

    Fetonte’s reaction to the outrage hasn’t helped his position. He published a strong defense of his work with CLEAT on Medium in which he said his work building coalitions was always meant to advance labor causes.

    “My activities in solving problems never changed my opposition to white supremacy or homophobia,” Fetonte said.


    The NPC held a vote Sunday to remove Fetonte, and the committee was evenly split with eight members voting for removal, and eight voting against (one of the 15 voting seats on the committee is split between two representatives from the Youth Democratic Socialists of America).

    Instead, the NPC decided to censure Fetonte for his “uncomradely and misleading behaviour (sic)” in the time since his election to the council.

    Fetonte did not return The Daily Caller News Foundation’s request for comment.

    Follow Thomas Phippen on Twitter

    Send tips to thomas@dailycallernewsfoundation.org.

    Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact licensing@dailycallernewsfoundation.org.

    Tags: Democratic Socialists of America
     
  12. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Sanders isn't a socialist.

    Some socialists may like him, but he's a social democrat.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and an even more simpleton response !
     
  14. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Where were your clothes made? Your furniture? Everything you own? I'd go as far as to venture that on a dollar basis 95% of my belongings are American, Canadian, or German made(I'm a dual US/German citizen and my wife is Canadian), by companies that pay a prevailing wage, offer excellent benefits, and more often than not fully unionized.

    If you don't like what a company does, it's pretty ****ing simple to correct it. Shop somewhere else, or embrace rugged individualism and do for yourself. For instance, I've never once bought soap-ever. Every 3-4 years the family made a batch, which only took an hour, and met our entire need for years. I refuse to eat artificial coloring/flavoring, so I pickle and ferment a lot of my own sandwich favorites like banana peppers and pickles.

    Eliminate welfare, and you eliminate subsidization. Walmart was a huge ally to Obama and single payer health care, because they know for damn sure they won't be the one's paying for it.
     
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  15. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    I just wish socialists would seize the means of production here in America-by buying them.
     
  16. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    Please continue to believe that. Stay at home and don't bother participating in any right-wing organizing because it'd be so pointless.
     
  17. Xtremenerd

    Xtremenerd Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what point you are trying to make is, but I am very politically active
     
  18. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No sanders is not this generation's Saul, but might be another Eugene Debs.

    Remember back during the great depression when millions were suffering from a lack of jobs there were growing movements of socialism, communism, as a reaction to the failure of capitalism to keep people off of soup lines, and a suffering not seen before in america. When capitalism no longer serves the People, you need someone like FDR to once again save capitalism. We need such people now, given how capitalism has been used to concentrate wealth at the top again, how it is being used to destroy our middle class, by not allowing americans to make what they consume. If you take away our own people making what they consume, and providing services, when there can never be enough jobs, a hard fact which so many seem to ignore. Shipping away that part of our economy that paid living wages was bound to lead to democratic socialism becoming more popular. Clearly, the current globalism which guts out the ability of our people to feed themselves is not sustainable. And our politicians should have been smart enough to realize that before they started dismantling the new deal model and turned our economy over to a few elites at the top, the banking cabal. This great change is what led to the death of our republic and oligarchy replacing it. We are ruled over by damned fascists. As the voters in both parties fight over much more important issues, like allowing men to use the women's bathroom because they claim they are not men, but women.
     
  19. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Give it up, these people willingly, deceitfully use "socialism" as a blanket to cover what they detest. LOL Either that, or they got their education on socialism from others who are clueless too, and just parrot what they hear.

    These countries in europe, northern europe who are said to use democratic socialism still have economies that are capitalism. But with some on the right, if you have a Commons, oh no, your nation is living under socialism. LOL So, they are either liars, or just half ass educated. I would rather believe it is just a lack of education.
     
  20. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why use venezuela instead of using nations where the people are happier and it is a success. Like some of those nordic area nations?

    The trouble with venezuela is leadership, corruption, and the bottom feel out with oil prices. And of course we are involved covertly in trying to take down the gov't. You know, like we always do? LOL

    And it is more than just a recession, it is the hollowing out of our economy which serves to keep people off of welfare and provide for americans to thrive by their work. And the truth is, what you call a recession is not going away but will get worse unless we get in leadership that will reverse the destruction of the american economy. Short of that, if you pay attention to history, we are in for some revolutionary times as this society comes apart at the seams. Someone like an FDR needs to step up and save capitalism once again. But this time it involved much more and those forces FDR had to take on are exponentially more powerful today. After all, they have basically destroyed our republic and given us oligarchy. And by just watching what trump ran into, we can see just how powerful this oligarchy is today. For what trump campaigned on, has mustered this oligarchy against him. This could not be more self evident.

    While the right was so damn worried over socialism, when that was never a threat, fascism slid in, and hardly anyone saw it coming. This fascism has opened the door for socialism with the younger generations who will one day have power, although I doubt if they could ever beat this oligarchy. Not without a real revolution, but our national security state like no time in history is in place to crush that.

    I think we are ****ed in this post 1984 america.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  21. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists have their way, the USA will be just like Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
     
  22. FrankCapua

    FrankCapua Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To reach the goals of socialism it is not necessary to have the central government own the means of production, distribution, and exchange when it can impose such strict centrally-directed regulation that the end result of centralized planning of the economy results.

    And historically, the result has not been good.
     

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