The Dow's 31% gain during Trump's first year is the best since FDR

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Josephwalker, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    It has everything to do with Trump's performance relative to his predecessor. It's about comparative measurement.

    I asked what your point was.... Care to answer??
     
  2. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    13 million jobs created under Obama.

    Trump? not that many
     
  3. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And 9 million of those were not created, they were recovered. There were 4 million new jobs created under Obama. So far under Trump there have been 2 million jobs created - and his policies are just getting started. Hang on to your hat in 2018.
     
  4. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The stuff the GOP refuses to admit it happened with their president at the helm.
     
  5. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    nonsense.

    they were new jobs
     
  6. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    The CRA, which was the foundation for the financial/housing crisis, took off under Bill Clinton. It took years to get to the point where the house of cards came crashing down. Maybe Bush could have preemptively stopped it. Maybe not. It already had a life of its own well into his first term.

    But please. Stop with the Democratic talking points.
     
  7. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    It is called, the subprime mortgage crisis. And it had to do with bank, who bundled up all kinds of mortgages in such a way nobody was able to make heads or tails about it, and understand the risk. That's where GWB mismanaged the economy. It was he who just let it all happen until it popped. Eight years of doing nothing....
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  8. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Read post 257
     
  9. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    Who set the policies in motion that unleashed the banks to make bad subprime mortgages?
     
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Who did nothing for 8 years straight about it until it popped so you can blame somebody else?

    Who made economic plans to set this all straight? Who made no plans until december, so you lot can claim made that economic miracle happen for the entire year?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  11. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    You answered a question with a question.

    I asked "Who set the policies in motion that unleashed the banks to make bad subprime mortgages?". When you're willing to answer this, we can have a reasonable discussion as to what if anything could have been done to stop it.
     
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Indeed I did. And you got a problem with it, since the answer shows how the GOP is responsible for the subprime mortgage crisis.
    This discussion is reasonable enough with my rhetorical reply. What you did was just paraphrasing "The CRA, which was the foundation for the financial/housing crisis, took off under Bill Clinton." in attempt to ignore my reply to that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  13. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    Indeed you didn't. You haven't stated "the answer". The question is "Who set the policies in motion that unleashed the banks to make bad subprime mortgages?"

    We can proceed from there.....

    On Edit: I didn’t see your reference to Bill Clinton. Ok, we’ve made progress. So how much responsibility does Clinton have for the eventual mess?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  14. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You already made that exact argument in post 256, and I replied to it.
    You now are just paraphrasing your argument.
    And so I just paraphrased my reply just like you.
    please answer my question first since I asked "Who did nothing for 8 years straight about it until it popped so you can blame somebody else?" first.

    Quid pro quo and all of that.


    And its not as if Clinton happened, than 8 years of a black hole, to than blame it all either on Clinton or Obama and give Trump the credit while he did nothing but play golf
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  15. Brexx

    Brexx Well-Known Member

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    That's the bad news, but there's still time.
     
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  16. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    Clinton set in motion lower standards for banks to give loans to people who shouldn't have received them. He lit the fuse on the stick of dynamite. Should Bush (over 8 years) have recognized the disaster that was set in motion?? Maybe. However, to shut it down would have been politically difficult, if not impossible. Lots of people were "buying" houses. Lots of people were making lots of money in the process. Banks were getting fat, dumb and happy. How would it look if the evil Republican Bush said suddenly tried to say NO??

    The point is that Clinton was as much to blame for unleashing the beast as Bush was for allowing the charade to continue. You might want to consider this before blaming everything on Bush.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  17. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Banks hid the amount of risk those loans were by bundeling these loans with all kinds of other loans. That's how the subprime mortgage crisis happened. And GWB just sat back doing nothing for 8 years about it, until it was too late. And than Obama had to fix GWB's world wide economic crash. Obamanomics still hit the US all the way to the end of 2017, because the dotard rather played golf. So that is where the credit goes to.

    And the fault is right up the ally of the GOP, of lets not regulate and determine what companies do. It will regulate it all by itself. Hence GWB had no problem with banks making a product of bundeling bad loans in such a way that nobody knew that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  18. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    You completely ignored that Clinton set this all in motion. Democrats love to give things away, and below market loans were just another scheme. They never think about the long consequences of their policies, and this one was a duzy.

    Your inability to admit these basic and irrefutable facts say you are more about ideology than reality. You can’t be talked to. That’s beyond clear.
     
  19. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    The "Clinton" error was in fact that of GWB, the GOP, and the banks.

    The GOP, when it had twelve years to stop it, did nothing of the sort.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  20. Brexx

    Brexx Well-Known Member

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    Lets not forget Obama's roll in the sub prime meltdown.

    First some background: Obama focused on "housing rights" when he worked as a lawyer-activist and community organizer in South Side Chicago. His mentor — the man who placed him in his first job there — was the father of the anti-redlining movement: John McKnight. He coined the term "redlining" to describe the mapping off of minority neighborhoods from home loans.

    McKnight wrote a letter for Obama that helped him get into Harvard. After he graduated, he worked for a Chicago civil-rights law firm that worked closely with McKnight's radical Gamaliel Foundation and National People's Action, as well as Acorn, to solicit lending-discrimination cases.

    At the time, NPA and Acorn were lobbying the Clinton administration to tighten enforcement of anti-redlining laws.

    They also dispatched bus loads of goons trained by Obama to the doorsteps of bankers to demand more home loans for minorities. Acorn even crashed the lobby of Citibank's headquarters in New York and accused it of discriminating against blacks.

    The pressure worked. In 1994, Clinton's top bank regulators signed a landmark anti-redlining policy that declared traditional mortgage underwriting standards racist and mandated banks apply easier lending rules for minorities.

    Also that year, Attorney General Janet Reno and her aide Eric Holder filed a mortgage discrimination case against a Washington-area bank that forced it to target minority neighborhoods for subprime loans.

    Reno and Holder also encouraged civil-rights lawyers like Obama to file local lending-bias cases against banks.

    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/fingerprints-of-obama-on-subprime-foreclosure-crisis/
     
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  21. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    GOP owns the Great Recession.
     
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  22. Brexx

    Brexx Well-Known Member

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    Bush failed to stop what Clinton had started, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Like The Stones said,"you can't always get what you want." That goes for presidents as well'

    Bush's first budget, written in 2001 — seven years ago — called runaway subprime lending by the government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac "a potential problem" and warned of "strong repercussions in financial markets."

    In 2003, Bush's Treasury secretary, John Snow, proposed what the New York Times called "the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago." Did Democrats in Congress welcome it? Hardly.

    "I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis," declared Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., in a response typical of those who viewed Fannie and Freddie as a party patronage machine that the GOP was trying to dismantle. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," added Sen. Thomas Carper, D-Del.

    Unfortunately, it was broke.

    In November 2003, just two months after Frank's remarks, Bush's top economist, Gregory Mankiw, warned: "The enormous size of the mortgage-backed securities market means that any problems at the GSEs matter for the financial system as a whole." He too proposed reforms, and they too went nowhere.

    In the next two years, a parade of White House officials traipsed to Capitol Hill, calling repeatedly for GSE reform. They were ignored. Even after several multibillion-dollar accounting errors by Fannie and Freddie, Congress put off reforms.

    In 2005, Fed chief Alan Greenspan sounded the most serious warning of all: "We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk" by doing nothing, he said. When a bill later that year emerged from the Senate Banking Committee, it looked like something might finally be done.

    Unfortunately, as economist Kevin Hassett of the American Enterprise Institute has noted, "the bill didn't become law, for a simple reason: Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee, signaling that this would be a partisan issue. Republicans, tied in knots by the tight Democratic opposition, couldn't even get the Senate to vote on the matter."

    Had they done so, it's likely the mortgage meltdown wouldn't have occurred, or would have been of far less intensity. President Bush and the Republican Congress might be blamed for many things, but this isn't one of them. It was a Democratic debacle, from start to finish.

    https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2008/12/dont_blame_bush_for_subprime_m.html
     
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  23. fizbo

    fizbo Well-Known Member

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    They continue to crawl out of the woodwork....

    Ignore the arson and blame everyone else for the fire. I feel like I’ve lost brain cells even entertaining this diversion from the topic.

    I’m going to bed tonight much happier In the knowledge that my equities are much more valuable than they would have been under Hillary. I feel better knowing more good jobs will exist for young people than there would have been under Hillary. Life is pretty good right now.
     
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  24. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Until the next Great Recession under the GOP, just like the last one. Sleep well, fizbo.
     
  25. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They (9 million) were people going back to work who had lost jobs in the financial crisis recession. Those are not new jobs. This is basis economics 101.
     

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