The end of freedom of expression online:

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Plus Ultra, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Except I'm on the left. But I didn't see anyone wanting to help the right...
     
  2. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    POST 141 - I was pointing out that the way people will perceive Google and others on how they go about culling their sites. I did not mention government stepping in. I never said it was a crime. I did say what newspapers and others don't say (the other side of the story) is a form of censorship. I didn't say they were obligated to do it. I was asking the question "What is Hate speech"? Who at Google is to define what "hate speech" is? Just leftist's and liberals? People all over the country are at war over who said what, people are losing their jobs because someone was offended, lives are being destroyed because someone posts something about someone even if not true.

    The two quotes I posted were two different views about what the founding fathers thought about the subject. Not much different has changed.

    I don't have a dog in this fight unless the Forum decided to restrict the free flow of ideas. Much to your chagrin, in case you don't already know it, some in Congress are looking for ways to break up the big internet monopolies.
     
  3. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unlike the chap you were responding to, you must not be far enough left? If you go far enough, then he looks rational. I am more left than right, but can't go far enough left to match many here. Extremes are always bad places, left or right. Plunges into absurdity, and yes sometimes even madness.
     
  4. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who made you the condescending police (a kinder word than what you deserve) of the Political Forum? You have already lost the argument.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  5. Art_Allm

    Art_Allm Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    A Christian baker has to bake a cake for a homosexual couple, a restaurant owner cannot deny the service to somebody because of his political believes or skin colour.

    But a private company, that provides internet services and sells domain names, can just deny the service to somebody they do not like, manipulate the algorithms of the search engine, or just confiscate the domain?

    You must be kidding!
     
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  6. Paperview

    Paperview Well-Known Member

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    #141: Paperview said:
    What strange world do you live in where you think a private company can be sued and taken to federal court because they exclude hate groups from their search engines.
    Learn a little something about free speech and the 1st Amendment."


    You: ---> "It's what qualifies for hate speech"

    It sure didn't look like you were asking that question with that statement. If it was an ill-presented question in the form of a statement, that's on you.

    I was going by your first paragraph, which still seems quite wild to me, considering the media explosive environment we live in today.(that, and you blame it all on liberals)

    "I did not mention government stepping in"
    Keep in mind, the post you quoted from me initially was my response to this:
    "Need some very deep pockets as you will need the funds to go to the SCOTUS. Google is based within the 9th circus which means they will uphold this for the sake of social justice."


    "I don't have a dog in this fight unless the Forum decided to restrict the free flow of ideas."
    In case you didn't know it, the Forum (and near all others like it) restrict the free flow of ideas all the time. Private companies: they get to do that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  7. Paperview

    Paperview Well-Known Member

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    You don't understand how accommodation laws and freedom of the press differ, do you?

    Oh, and political beliefs are not protected

    A business can most certainly refuse service based on your political belief.
     
  8. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    the vast majority of web forums are controlled by the deluded far right

    Over the years I have posted on many sites in order to express my views. Only one liberal website banned me and that was democraticunderground because I opposed their views on zionism (to this day they refuse to allow anyone to post anything that is sympathetic to Palestinians). By contrast I have been banned by several right wing websites just for expressing the truth.

    The one thing that is always readily noticeable is how patriots easily defeat right wingers in those debates. They usually reply with intelligence and restraint. By contrast, the deluded right wingers always reply with anger, hate, and bigotry.

    Why are right wingers so unpatriotic and filled with hate?
     
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  9. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your post is almost funny. My question though is how would you rate this website? I've already received a warning for making a joke about some ones avatar. (In fact it was a true statement)
     
  10. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  11. Paperview

    Paperview Well-Known Member

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    True or not, even if incredibly benign, you can get your hand spanked here more than most forum's I visit (all of which are moderated to some degree)

    This forum is pretty heavy in moderating conversation.

    I was infracted for saying "she is trolling." That's it.
    No kidding. (about a hardcore birther that was trolling the hell out of the thread)

    Also I was slapped for saying "Some Trump supporters are such....<censored>"

    That was the exact sentence. I self-censored myself by putting in that word. Bam!

    Also, get this one (a warning) for saying "Yeah. That was a pretty ridiculous statement."

    That one blew me away. Moderating is a tough job, and we should all appreciate the service they give, but sometimes...well, just be aware.
     
  12. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'll have to watch my step as I do have a sharp tongue at times myself. Enjoy the banter.
     
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  13. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Confusing terminology. I oppose monopolies and I see anti-trust legislation and adjudication as primarily anti-monopolist.
     
  14. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm free... I'm expressing... probably don't have a problem because I'm not expressing things that limit other people's rights and freedom
     
  15. gc17

    gc17 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  16. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    It is a strange world, here's a story on how Facebook (known to us for selling Russian agents advertising to manipulate the US election) censors reports of genocide:
    My impression is that somehow it profits Facebook to do as it does.
     
  17. gc17

    gc17 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By America what or who do you mean?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  18. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Obviously not "right" America, presumably "left" America would be doing the spanking.
     
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  19. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe they were trying to say the same as you but the terminology according to Wikipedia is Competition law is known as antitrust law in the United States and European Union, and as anti-monopoly law in China and Russia.
     
  20. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agree about confusing phrasing and wasn't happy with it at the time. Based on what I've experienced in my 66 years, all monopolies were created by the government, Bell telephone comes to mind. As far as monopolies occurring in the free market, don't know of any, but if there are, well then they won fair and square and they deserve their monopoly. If you can do better, beat them. However, I consider it an impossibility; there is just too much competition. As to anti-trust laws, they are evil, non-objective, politically motivated, and used to politically manipulate one's political enemies to obtain what they want.

    Miss Ayn Rand: "The alleged purpose of the Antitrust laws was to protect competition; that purpose was based on the socialistic fallacy that a free, unregulated market will inevitably lead to the establishment of coercive monopolies. But, in fact, no coercive monopoly has ever been or ever can be established by means of free trade on a free market. Every coercive monopoly was created by government intervention into the economy: by special privileges, such as franchises or subsidies, which closed the entry of competitors into a given field, by legislative action. (For a full demonstration of this fact, I refer you to the works of the best economists.) The Antitrust laws were the classic example of a moral inversion prevalent in the history of capitalism: an example of the victims, the businessmen, taking the blame for the evils caused by the government, and the government using its own guilt as a justification for acquiring wider powers, on the pretext of “correcting” the evils.

    “Free competition enforced by law” is a grotesque contradiction in terms."--http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/antitrust_laws.html

    And I support their immediate repeal--Starjet
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  21. Canucker

    Canucker Member

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    You have taken free competition out of context as there is nothing free about mega corporations swallowing all the competition whole. There is also the fact they break many companies through frivolous law suits. When only a few mega corporations own everything then you essentially have corporate socialism instead of a socialist government. So in effect you are saying your for socialism under the guise of false capitalism.
     
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  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Did you read the entirety of what I posted, or of the OP article? Because I don't see how you could say they weren't helping the websites they would be putting in their list.

    Are you saying that I'm wrong in implying it's exclusively rightist websites that will be cited? That IS an unfortunate (and insulting) thing for me to even imply, so I will apologize if that's your problem

    Otherwise, I dunno. The only further explanation I can think of is to quote one of my favorite sayings. It's an old double entendre I always thought quite clever; "No Publicity is Bad Publicity "
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  23. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    In your own 4 walls you can do what you want if not part of law issue like killing someone there etc. of course...

    But, example:

    You can write on a wall in your apartment "I hate all Jews, Hitler did not kill enough and these sub-humans must be eliminated from this planet, no matter if male, female, old or baby!", because this is your personal opinion and your private area.
    But as soon as you make this public in any way, it isn't protected by law and constitution anymore ... AND it is attacking the constitution too, because attacking the dignity of other human people ... and so it is by all right forbidden to do, because dignity of other human is much higher right as any freedom of speech!
     
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  24. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    So the sturmers are unhappy that businesses use their right to not accept certain clients. Good that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  25. Art_Allm

    Art_Allm Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    You would feel free in any totalitarian regime.

    The establishment tells you what is kosher to say, and you just stick to the party line and feel free to promote the narrative of the establishment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017

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