The Ethics of Abortion

Really? Did you not know that courts make men pay alimony? Or make men pay child support, for which the child may not be his?

 

I'm a former police officer and child abuse advocate. Yes, I'm aware there are laws that require men to pay for offspring their wives conceived by someone else while she was married.

Are you not aware that the rest of us pay for births and children that we did NOT bring into this world because so many parents skip out on their responsibilities to provide for their children?

Are you arguing that one form of "forced support" is worse than another form of "forced support"? If so, please explain your reasoning.

 

The reasoning is simple. In principle, laws are in place that dictate what we can and can’t do with our bodies. So that is nothing new.
I’m all for pro choice for both parties. If a man decides he doesn’t want a child he has no say in the matter, yet a woman and the court can make him pay for a child he doesn’t want.
Essentially when we say a woman’s right to choose we are declining a man’s rights. And since abortion availability has really made zero impact on illegitimate births, I would say women on the whole have squandered that decision.
The typical response to this is “it takes two to get pregnant”. It only takes one to have a child.
So when we advocate for womens rights to choose, we are really subsidizing slut behavior and piss poor decisions.

 

Your argument is faulty for two reasons.

1. Men that don't want to have children have the choice to be abstinent, and/or use condoms and/or get a vasectomy. He shouldn't be entering a danger zone if he doesn't want a possible explosion.

2. It's hypocritical for society to label women as "sluts" while simultaneously giving a pass to the people that used sex to advance their careers. It can't be both ways.

 

What is hypocritical is telling men to be abstinent and not women. Lol. If women are risking such a huge explosion as you say, shouldn’t they be making better choices?
How many forms of birth control do women have vice men? If illegitimate children are such a problem why hasn’t abortion availability solved that problem?
No child gets born into the world without a woman’s full consent.

 

You want to use the power of the state to treat women badly, as second class citizens.

You know, I think there's a word for that..

 

In your rage at men having to support their own children ( how awful !) you lost the understanding of what bodily autonomy means.

No man is forced to have a vasectomy or forced to sire children.....if they were then that would be violating their right to bodily autonomy..

 

Who said they are ?

 

LOL, if true, wouldn't that make you an abortion proponent? I mean, less kids, less "male abuse" ...right???

 

I agree. Let’s give men the right to opt out of fatherhood if they don’t want the child.

 

But men are forced to pay for a child they didn’t want.

 

The state uses its powers to treat men as disposable citizens. So yes there is a word for that.
It sounds like you’re behind it 100%

 

What it sounds like is you trying to change the subject to avoid the topic.

 

I’m not avoiding the topic. I’m attacking the contradiction in the way the state treats men as opposed to women. If you’re stating a principle of equality where women can opt out of parental duties by having an abortion, then that principle should apply to men as well otherwise your assertion is invalid and immoral.

 

Ain't equal to begin with..

Look, you can be as silly as ya wanna be, just don't expect me to take you seriously.

 

I can tell we have reached a point beyond your scope. This is an ethical debate, can you not discuss ethics? What is silly is you compartmentalizing your principles. Which really means you care nothing for ethics at all.

 

Thanks for the laugh.

You gave me your conclusion, which on the face of it is absurd, without any of the steps how you get there.

 

I think your bus is leaving

 

So, are you telling us that there were no intermediate steps?

 

Us? Intermediate steps to what? Drawing a simple correlation between the treatment of women and men? What is it that you can’t understand ?

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
LOL, if true, wouldn't that make you an abortion proponent? I mean, less kids, less "male abuse" ...right???

.....wouldn't that make you an abortion proponent?

 

That "principle" DOES apply to men....any pregnant man has a right to an abortion...

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
In your rage at men having to support their own children ( how awful !) you lost the understanding of what bodily autonomy means.

No man is forced to have a vasectomy or forced to sire children.....if they were then that would be violating their right to bodily autonomy..

Which is NOT a violation of bodily autonomy.

It would be a violation of bodily autonomy if a man was forced to give his kid a kidney or a blood transfusion or forced to have a vasectomy or forced to sire children.

NO one is obligated to use their BODY PARTS to sustain the life of another.

We ALL are obliged to obey the LAW which covers CHILD support.

 

Money does not address the fact that this is a life changing event, often ending education, ending employment, being a life long reminder of rape/incest, etc.

And, what makes you think alimony covers the bill??? Even when alimony is paid, it never covers more than half some legally calculated maintenance cost. So, what makes you think the woman has the other half to spend? What makes you think she can get the healthcare required?

Having some guy write a check and walk out the door covers VERY little of the issue.

 

Your consideration of ethics appears to stop at the embryo.

I don't see you allowing for the fact that people don't all agree with your pronouncements on ethics.

And, I don't see you considering the impact faced by women.