The EU looks like the Soviet Union in 1991 – on the verge of collapse

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Striped Horse, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've noticed that with quite a few Americans. It's seriously weird!
     
  2. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is how your read Soros? Some supporting links please. ;)

    I believe it is impossible to know the future at the moment, including our own survival. There are so many things going on. Diem 25 could become successful, the Eu could change and could be what they hope for, a socially democratic Europe supporting saving the planet. We could change from this Me, Me, Me, that has been encouraged since Thatcher and start to realised we are not all little islands and if we want to save our planet and have a place for those born now to grow old in we must work together. On the other hand we could continue what is imo propagated by the Neo Liberal and Cons of the New American Century to see us as separate, go against migrants and with climate change they are going to come more and more - as Margot has said many times, draught from Climate Change was one of the reasons for the original Syrian Uprising. So we can continue with me, me, me and enlarge that to us, us, us against them - the non whites and return like Hungary to the 1930's ethnic nationalism. On a massive generalisation that is probably the two possibilities I see.
     
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  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not saying you do not believe in rights Jeanette. As you should know on some things we have strong agreement. However. my reading of Soros is the opposite of yours!

    No it isn't yet what is the will of the majority, not least because it is a Grade 1 economic Union and very difficult to leave. It may end up with some of the Eastern states leaving and other changes which will make it appropriate and suitable for the current time. I think probably what people do not like is the effects of Neo Liberalism. It is if current 'centrist' State Parties do not get this before a suitable alternative has made itself felt that I think we would be in danger of the far right gaining the upper hand - and they are almost always who are for splitting the EU - to return it to ethnic nationalist states. There is no question that the EU needs massive change but if that is done and done well, it would provide the best of both security and strength to the people of Europe.
     
  4. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK. This is not what I am needing. I have skimmed your first two articles. It appears to link him to USAD, the second I did not even see his name just USAID. All I have got from the top two is him being linked to an organisation called USAID. I am well aware that there are many people who believe this one man is responsible for all the ills in the world so it would not surprise me if you can provide me with same. I was hoping for more.

    What I wanted you to do was illustrate how he is in cahoots with PNAC and involved in that sort of work. I have seen zero evidence of this.

    One World was I think begun in the 70's or possibly 80's and people like the Kinnocks were among the first to get involved. Their interest was for something very different to Neo Liberal Globalisation and very far removed from PNAC. My reading of Soros very much has him interested in helping people to develop Independence through understanding democracy and human rights - opposing oppression. I know I wondered why someone who made his money in the way he did was then supporting the opposite, that is supporting social programs which empowered ordinary people. but that can certainly happen and a lot of the problems he has had for instance in Hungary has been because of his support for that.

    and you are probably going to ask me for links now. Unfortunately old computer - I have not managed to transfer to this one and am too busy now. However could you give me something - and something a bit more substantial than linking his name to an organisation, something which suggests he is a part of PNAC because what I have noticed is that people who do not like Neo Liberalism tend to blame him for all the problems in the world when that is not his thing at all. People who strongly support Russia also blame him for all the problems in the world.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  6. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it's a little too late for a change in the EU. They should have done something about the economic differences in Europe when it was suggested years ago. I attribute it to an arrogance that was always part and parcel of Northern Europe. What a pity!
     
  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see, I knew Greeks never gave up their dislike of Turkey but I see you still have a dislike of Northern and I assume Western Europe as well. ;) Europe will change, that is certain. How, is far from certain.
     
  8. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    YOU'RE the one who mentioned it!
     
  9. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Actually they're trying to get to Britain, hence the camp in Calais.
     
  10. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    As I'm British...
     
  11. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    He who casts the vote means nothing, he who counts them...
     
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  12. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We Brits are nowhere near as obsessed about Russia as Americans are.
     
  13. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    True because they're a superpower and sadly we are not any longer.
     
  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and will of course become much less having left the EU.
     
  15. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One thing we have in common though - we're both governed by a dysfunctional political class.
     
  16. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Tell the people of Salisbury that Brits are not as obsessed with Russia as Americans.
     
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  17. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    And yet secession is the mechanism that broke apart the USSR.
     
  18. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    AFTER Gorbachev came to power, how do you think secession would have worked under Stalin, Breshnev and Andropov?
     
  19. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    It was included in the Constitution in 1977 ..... under Brezhnev.

    Are you insinuating that these men might have done what Lincoln did, and declare war on his own people?
     
  20. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Check those Parry articles closer. Use the drop down search function if required. He and his NGO are mentioned in every case as I recall and USAID is referenced as it provided his NGO with funds for his projects.

    More connected to neoliberalsim. PNAC is a different beast.

    I believe it goes back before that.

    [quoteand you are probably going to ask me for links now. Unfortunately old computer - I have not managed to transfer to this one and am too busy now. However could you give me something - and something a bit more substantial than linking his name to an organisation, something which suggests he is a part of PNAC because what I have noticed is that people who do not like Neo Liberalism tend to blame him for all the problems in the world when that is not his thing at all. People who strongly support Russia also blame him for all the problems in the world.[/QUOTE]

    Nope, I'm not asking for links. I trust you to be accurate or if misremembering, honest about that.

    On PNAC, perhaps I missed something earlier. I'm unaware that he has ever been linked to that dubious entity.
     
  21. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I didn't. I posted an article by Soros that mentioned those bad old Soviet Union days and likened them to today's EU. I didn't write that article. My preamble to the post was clear in discussing Soros in the context of his neoliberal projects.

    But I did (and still do) agree with the caption to the extent that Western propaganda and censorship today reminds me very much of the bad old days of the Soviet Union - when Muscovites so distrusted their media that they circulated news pamphlets and read hoardings that contained privately circulated news.

    We, in the West are doing much the same thing with the internet today, which is why governments and social media giants are using technological mechanisms to make blogs and other webpages de facto "invisible", or unacceptable, using a range of propaganda tools to achieve the same thing.

    PS, people are not dying to get in the EU from Russia as you seem to imply? They are largely fleeing US wars in Syria and the Middle East. Some are economic migrants.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  22. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    And despite right wing claims to the contrary we are not in fat city here in the USA either with corporate debt and all forms of persona debts all at record high levels.
     
  23. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't believe linking someone's name with any organisation tells you anything. I did however a small check and discovered USAID had given him money and that led to the guy from the Justice place who seemed to be the base of Parry's article and it appeared that the argument he gave was that they were giving Soros money and that while he was known for good causes, he tended to support people who were acting against the interests of the US or marching against the US or something. That was a few days ago I looked but that is what I remember.

    I hardly think someone interested in neo liberalism would have all but destroyed the UK's economy in the 90's when we were one of the two main neo liberal countries.

    and

    Really? What were you meaning by this then
    Well no it doesn't though I got muddled up with the Kinnoch's One World which I think has fallen by the wayside and his Open Society begun in 79

    https://www.georgesoros.com/philanthropy/

    He comes over more to me like a modern day Robin Hood.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  24. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    My point stands, you have the right to secede in a one party state where the government controls the voting process and when you raise an objection you get locked in a mental asylum.
     
  25. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Your modern day Robin Hood bust the pound in his Black Wednesday currency manipulation of 1992, costing the Bank of England (thus the British taxpayer) a cool $1 billion (HERE) --- so unlike Robin he stole from the poor to give to the rich (Himself). Hardly the stuff of philanthropic legend.

    You might find this article of interest HERE.

    Soros founded Open Society. That's not simply "linked" is the way you imply. It's his baby.
     
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