The Fine Line Between Hate Speech and Freedom Of Speech

Discussion in 'Civil Liberties' started by TheUnenlightenedMind, May 6, 2017.

  1. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    No it's not. If my speech is based upon the hate I feel then it is hate speech and a true thing. It's still subjective, but it is not based upon the listener's subjective view. That is the false hate speech of those wanting these laws. No one but me can truly say whether or not my speech is based on hate but me, unless I state as much out loud.
     
  2. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well then go to a college and say that there's two genders and genetic abnormalities.

    That should be just fine since that's a fact.
     
  3. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Again that is the difference between what is actual hate speech, and what others want it to be. Just because they think I am saying things with hate, does not mean I am. However, if I feel hate when I say it, then it is hate speech.
     
  4. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So we'd have to trust the speaker to tell us if something they say is hate speech or not.
     
  5. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Not what I am saying. I am saying that it is a real thing and that it is based upon the speaker's emotions. We can never be 100% certain of a speaker's emotional basis of their speech. But that does not change the fact that he can indeed speak with hate, and thus it is factually hate speech.
     
  6. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet the only way to know if something is hate speech is if the speaker admits to it, based on your definition.
     
  7. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I am not trying to claim that it is knowable by anyone other than the speaker themself. At least anymore than we can know whatever other emotion is behind their speech. I am only pointing out, counter to your claim that hate speech isn't real, that it is indeed real, just not in the way that those who want hate speech laws want it to be.
     
  8. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think your definition of "hate speech" is in line with the "hate speech" definition as used in the OP.
     
  9. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    You didn't context it as such. You simply made a blanket statement and I point out that it was factually wrong.
     
  10. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well I kinda assumed we were all talking about the OP.
     
  11. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    If had said "hate speech doesn't exist as you're defining it" it wouldn't have even hit my radar. But there have been others I've encountered that want to claim that it doesn't exist at all, in the manner I was arguing and as you seem to have put out. I think when it comes to hate speech laws and freedom of speech, we are on the same page though.
     
  12. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah I don't think it exists.

    I mean, you can say things in a hateful way, but it's not an actual category of speech.

    You can't define hate speech, as it's entirely subjective to the parties involved.
     
  13. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    It's not a category, it's an adjective based upon the actual emotion of the speaker. Emotions are factual. What makes a person feel a given emotion to a given situation is subjective, but the fact remains that they feel that emotion. And thus when they speak, that speech is {emotion} speech. There is hate speech, love speech, sadness speech, whatever. They all factually exist, because emotions are factual.

    Again don't mistake me saying that anyone else can necessarily tell other than the speaker. I might be successful in hiding my hate. And simply disagreeing does not mean the speaker hates. Hence why only the speaker will truly know if his speech is hate speech or not.
     
  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's not what the left, or the MSM (same thing really), is talking about when they say "hate speech".
     
  15. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I understand that. Just because they are wrong about what hate speech is, does not mean it doesn't exist. It only means they arrwrong about it.
     
  16. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've never heard of your definition of hate speech.

    Have you anything to support that or is it just your opinion?
     
  17. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Probably because what I am saying is logical based and not emotional based knee jerking wishful thinking of the ones who want to punish those who don't think like they do.

    Again this is logic, so let's step through it.
    Are emotions factual or not?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  18. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Spot on! The idea of "hate speech" is stupid.
     
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  19. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Hate speech is only an opinion defined by each person. I say hate speech does not exist....prove me wrong.
     
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  20. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Very well. So I'm going to do this one logical step at a time. Keep in mind that I am going to prove that hate speech is real and factual, NOT that it is defined as the OP thinks.

    Are emotions factually real?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  21. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Factually real? Nothing is factually real.
     
  22. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    So facts do not exist?
     
  23. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Facts or perceptions of facts? What you see as a "fact" may not be seen as such by someone else.
     
  24. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    So you are only a preception, not a fact?
     
  25. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    To you, what else can I be?
     

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