The future of the European Union

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by LafayetteBis, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. afganitia

    afganitia Member

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    If you are a window cleaner, you have to pay taxes. And you pay more when you are small. Simple and direct.

    Pd: and smaller businesses tends to be more expensive. Big international companies will usually be muuuuch cheaper than small private business. Not much to do with the conversation in hand, though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  2. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I am a teacher. Yes.
    For me it's all about streaming. Put the slow in a class with the slow and the fast in a class with the fast.
    In the UK scholarships are only for private schools and we don't have so many of those.
    Private schools however are selective on who they accept. So they tend to be centres of excellence.

    And for me that is what I am looking for most in education. Centres of excellence.
    I would give private schools their share of the state's school funding per student. This would enable more parents to send their children to the best schools in the land by lowering it's effective price by £6,000 a year. Down from £25,000 to £19,000.

    This takes the best out of state schools allowing for better streaming of who is left and encourages parents who wish to get more education for their children, to do so more easily.
     
  3. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    If you are a window cleaner you won't pay much in the way of taxes.
    No income taxes for example. No VAT due on your ladder and bucket. No capital gains as you won't be making any. No rates on your business premises because you don't have any.

    Big companies pay more tax than small companies. Way more.
    The taxman can only tax people who have it. The rich pay most tax, not the poor.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  4. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    Totally agree.

    I remember once, going out drinking with my college math professor, and we got into talking about this issue, and we both agreed that this would be beneficial for everyone. Both the talented, and the less so. Eventually, an unknown woman that had eavesdropped approached us, and were pissed off, because it would somehow put a label on the smart and the dumb ones. There's a huge fear among a lot of people to be labeled dumb.

    Another huge problem is the removal of "special" schools here. Back in the fifties, these schools were doing a LOT of stuff wrong, and a lot of children were misused and had horrible experiences there. So, the solution was to dissolve these special schools, and put everyone in the same class. I remember at grade school, there were two retarded kids in my class, and they would disrupt everything, throw tables and chairs, start fights, and generally turning an otherwise "normal" class into a war zone. Especially one of these kids had an awful time, and his participation in a normal class didn't help him anymore than it helped us. It was just extremely expensive, there had to be at least two retard wranglers in each class, just to handle those two, and they would still cause a massive ruckus. Just adding those two, made the already vulnerable kids even weaker at school, and the talented had no way to improve, since they were largely ignored since they didn't cause trouble.
     
  5. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Special schools here are flipping awesome.
    I love working in them.

    In state schools currently there is a big drive to integrate them into regular classes.
    Good for the specials, bad for the normals.
    Dangerous actually. Uncomfortable work environment.

    From my teaching perspective I absolutely concur with your classroom experiences and share them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  6. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    I don't even think it's good for the specials in many cases. In my class, the two I would consider "special", did not benefit either. One was basically bullied to the brink of torture, over 9 years, had absolutely no friends at any point, and would constantly get triggered to attack, and then beaten up.

    The other was more socially developed, but at the same time having extremely low intelligence. He ended up being the tool for local thugs, and getting into all kinds of drugs and anabolic steroids. An eighteen year old guy on anabolic steroids and amphetamines is dangerous when he can be told to do whatever by someone. He would probably be far better monitored and developed in a special school. Would probably be able to make friends later, without turning to crime.

    In some cases, it can be good for the specials though. And in some cases it could even be neutral for the normals also. But then we're talking some lighter development problems, stuff like dyslexia, ADD, ADHD, aspergers and so on. None of these things should barr someone from entering a normal class, as long as they don't have a negative effect on the others.

    Of course, I base this on anecdotal evidence. But from my experiences, too much integration of specials into normal classes is a ****ing horrorshow. Special schools are necessary and beneficial both for the specials and the normals, it's just that we had a bad history with them, so we did the dumb thing and rejected the concept.
     
  7. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    You are right to some extent. He does want more influence in places like the Middle East (Syria) and Iran. But that's in Asia, not in Europe. Don't count Ukraine since that country has always been under Russia's influence since the fall of communism.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  8. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Who cares? The EU is dead anyway.
     
  9. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Enjoy them while you have them. When Muslims become dominant in your area, I guarantee that they will all head back for Romania one by one, family by family. If you're a German or an Austrian I can tell you that your productivity rate is bound to decline because soon you'll have no country.
     
  10. JohnConstantine

    JohnConstantine Active Member

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    I'd like to see the EU disassembled. I believe that political opportunists know how to tap into our fears, prejudices and sympathies to justify horrible ends. Heart strings are invariably pulled in order to embroil us in something sinister; the EU is no exception.

    If you're against the EU, the accusation is pretty simple. You are a dangerous racist, you are heartless when it comes to migrants, and do not understand the threat of nationalism which is only contained by a supra-national state. After all, Europe has supposedly enjoyed peace since the EU's inception (Balkans? Ukraine?).

    Once you accept the attestation that the EU's opponents are dangerous nationalists then you'll support the aggressive centralisation of power. The concentration of power in hands of fewer and fewer people, which is what Washington wants, and what the corporate world wants.

    Why?

    Because why when you want to execute an agenda, would you want a bunch of autonomous states everywhere? Better a handful of supra-national centres to lobby and co-opt, the underlings then neatly fall inline. It's why Brussels is the biggest corporate lobbying centre in the world outside of Washington.

    Another funny one is 'we're stronger together'. Perhaps... but so what? Look at the 'strongest' states, aren't they also the most violent? What makes us think that the European Superstate at its zenith won't start flexing its muscle around the world because it can? And it will be all those empathetic, peace loving folk who brought it into existence.
     
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  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well people who did not want to be aligned to Russia would care, people who are not of the far right persuasion would care and sorry, the EU is not dead.
     
  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, right, when the sun sets in the east ...
     
  13. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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  14. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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  15. afganitia

    afganitia Member

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    Sorry for the late response, I was on holidays. And no politics on holidays.

    Returning to the point. I don't know where you live. I presume that not in Europe. A window cleaner pay a heck on taxes. I Spain, for example, the average earnings per month are 23.000 euros per year. 16000 after direct tax. Do you think this tax is small?
    However, this is not all. I am pretty sure you are not European, because here he also have passive taxes. In Spain is called IVA. standard IVA is 21%. IVA is applied to all products. All. Cars, food (half of it, the other has reduced iva at 10%), books, restaurants, electricity (this also have a lot more taxes) a ****ing Tampax, going to the cinema,... . However, this are not the only taxes. When you die, the state get a great part of what you leave to tour descendants. Where I live is 50%. So if in my will I leave a 200.000 euros flat to my son, he will pay 100.000 to the state. Also there is the tax on petrol, around 80 cents per liter. And the tax on alcohol. And the tax on tobacco. And the local tax (which vary from one place to another), like the one for enjoyment of the local avenues.

    So, a window cleaner pays a ****ton of taxes.

    Second, the rich pay way less taxes than the poor. Percentual, of course. Not only in Europe, though. Bill gates pays shut in taxes. Rich do not need to evade taxes, as they have legal means to evade. "evading is for the poor" is a rule in economics.

    And big companies pays shut in taxes. Because they tax in another countries, like Ireland, or Luxembourg, or cayman Islands.
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I could not agree more, which is why research has shown this outcome in the US:
    [​IMG]

    Were upper-income taxation put back to where it was before LBJ started the downward spiral from the initial 90% to today's much publicized 14% given to Milt Romney (see here), then the above infographic would show a far more fair and equitable distribution of Wealth in America.

    Unlimited ability (by reducing competition) to earn Income that (with low taxes) becomes Wealth is a particularly American "condition", and derives from a long-standing notion in America that "being rich" is the ultimate success-story to which an entire nation is devoted.

    The sort of collective stoopidity that cause the societal aberrations noteworthy of that country ...
     
  17. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    In the UK, a window cleaner earns too little to pay any income taxes.
    He earns nothing close to average wage. Perhaps only a quarter of that.
    Since he has no money he buys very little and pays little sales taxes. Essentials like food are exempt from sales tax.
    So most of his untaxed earns are also untaxed spendings. Since he needs no vehicle, he pays no fuel duties.

    In the UK roughly 50p in every £1 is paid in tax if you are Joe Average.
    More if you are above average income, less if you are below.

    "Calculated as a percentage" the rich still pay more taxes than the poor.
    50% of 1,000,000 = £500,000 tax bill

    Which is more than 50% of 1,000 = £500 tax bill.

    The percentage is irrelevant only the £ are. I do not get paid in percentages. I can buy nothing with a percentage.

    Using a percentage is attempt to hide the truth.


    To make £500,000 sound like less money than £500. But it is not less money. It is more. Much much more.
    Most people in this country do not pay their fair percentage of UK taxes. Do not pay an equal percentage of collected taxes.

    There is no equality here. The richer you are the more you are penalised. Some might say victimised.
    Smart, successful and frugal people are penalised by our society.

    If however I spend every penny of my wages on drink and never save a bean, I get to spend more of my paycheck than if I try and save up for an emergency, to start a company or for my old age.
    This is the entirely wrong message and wrong public policy to follow. It is nihilistic in approach. If we all follow it, we all go broke.

    Big companies pay more tax than little companies.
    Why? Because they have obvious assets to confiscate. They are easy targets.
    Countries will indeed try and claim ownership of all global profits of companies that operate in their country. And they will all claim more than their fair share for their own nation. But other nations are in competition with us for their taxes.

    And that is where the government's ability to steal from them, falls down.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017

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