The Grateful Dead

I also happen to hate licorice, and Dead fans will know what I mean, but lordy, is this music awful. They don't sound like they are even trying to be aurally appealing. The chords and the riffs are primitive in conception and amateurish in execution.

I knew they were awful many decades ago. "Truckin'"? Are you kidding me? And there were so many better bands, greater bands, really, that didn't get half the respect. And the Dead didn't get better over time. I hear the concerts are even worse: one long, hideous jam session

"Who doesn't like the Dead?!?" a cousin of mine asked rhetorically once, like they were the Beatles, ZZ Topp, Billy Joel, The Temptations, Zeppelin, or Aerosmith.

There's also the problem, and I know this is just me, that I can't relate to what they are singing about. Never. At all. Take "Box of Rain", for example. You would think it was something special to hear people rave about it. It isn't. The title is intriguing, but beyond sounding crap, these are some of the words:

Just a box of rain, wind and water
Believe it if you need it
If you don't, just pass it on
Sun and shower, wind and rain
In and out the window
Like a moth before a flame.

Da fooq? "In and out the window like a moth before a flame." Oh, brother. I love rain and can think of several better songs about rain: Rain Sometimes, Have You Ever Seen the Rain, Raindrops Keep Falling on my Head, Rainy Days and Mondays, and others.

David Crosby raves about the Dead, and he's great, if annoying, so ...

Tell me what I'm missing. Maybe I'm just jealous, but my brain hurts even thinking about the Grateful Dead.

 

Hny dude. Agree that the dead suck, but it’s 22: who cares? Why?

 

some things some people will never get.

 

Nuh uh. You’re a dead head?

 

Now it's 2023, and they're still horrible. I'm not watching that Madonna video. I do like Material Girl, sort of.

 

yes, in the sense that I attended a few of their concerts and continue to listen to their music. I didn't follow them around-I saw them in New Haven when I was at Yale, upstate NY when I was living there doing graduate work at Cornell, and then in Cincinnati, where I returned to after 8 years of college, law and graduate school on the east coast. Never had any desire to do the drugs or nomadic lifestyle.

 

It's 2023 and I'm still drivin' that train, high on cocaine....

 

an interesting factoid was that the late Great Ron Mckernan (Pig Pen) -who passed mainly due to the repercussions of being a heavy drinker-was that he hated the pharmaceutical excesses of his band mates. I recall an interview with him about the song Casey Jones that you quoted-they asked him was that a "happy" song and he said "hell no, driving a train high on cocaine is a really bad scene" I was sort of amazed because I assumed he was as big a "head" as Weir (who allegedly did acid every day for a decade according to a quip Jerry made-I believe on Dave Letterman's show.

 

You guys don't get me wrong... Jerry Garcia was a great talent, and by all accounts a great guy. I'm sure he's in heaven, and if I get there at all, it'll be after 132 gigayears of Purgatory. It was the early and then continued fanaticism of the fans that made me think, "there must be something great here."

 

Jerry's last wife was from the most wealthy suburb in Cincinnati and she apparently knew a bunch of people I know (though she is at least a decade older than I am). One of my tennis buddies is from a big GOP background ,and fairly conservative very wealthy Irish Catholic Family. Drinking yes-drugs NO. So he gets invited to a rather formal dinner party and in comes Jerry Garcia. SO he's telling me-"so this guy with all sorts of hair comes in and there is a big fuss and I say WTF is this guy and someone gushes JERRY GARCIA of the Grateful Dead and I am thinking-great, he's probably some arrogant leftwing ass" He ended up sitting next to Garcia (he was telling me this story after Jerry died). "And later I heard Garcia died of a heart attack in rehab and that was sad because the guy was funny, humble and seemed like wonderful fellow-I was hoping to get a chance to talk to him
again "

 

With music, we're always dealing with personal tastes. Other than being in tune, and playing the "right" notes, it's hard to make overall appraisals of popular music. For example, I am, like you, not a fan of the Grateful Dead. They may have a couple of OK songs, that I just haven't ever heard. The one song of theirs that I like, it is because I heard someone playing it, when I was out, camping: I preferred that amateur version of "Friend of the Devil," to the Dead's own rendition. And "Trucking?"-- for real, I know what you mean. But that doesn't mean that others don't groove to that vibe; in the same way that you (along with millions of others) apparently like Aerosmith, who I also, generally, can't stand (other than their song "Dream On"). Now, let's talk about Clapton: does he have guitar skills, sure; do I find it torture to listen to "Cocaine?" Absolutely. I can enjoy "Promises," "Badge," which he did with George Harrison, and "Layla" which, ironically, is about George Harrison's wife, who Clapton "stole."

To me, people also make a bigger deal over the Rolling Stones, than that group warrants. Obviously, though, I am in a minority, with that opinion. Again, though, I do like some of their songs, and I'm sure there are some deeper cuts that I would like, if I ever heard them. But overall, from what's most often played on the radio, I wouldn't consider them one of the greatest pop bands "of all time." I mean, we are both critical of the Dead's singing, but Jagger is no songbird, either. I think he is just better at entertaining a crowd. For the record, though, "Angie," is a beautiful song, as is "Wild Horses," and others like, "Gimme Shelter," are notable. But "Satisfaction," sucks, and "Sympathy for the Devil," is permanently played out, for me.

So, as I'd mentioned, above, I think it is about a certain vibe, or energy, a character or flavor of certain groups and types of music, that one either finds appealing, or doesn't. An interesting theory that someone, who taught "toning" meditation techniques, once shared with me, was that he felt people absorbed this energy from the music; so people gravitate to the energy that they either lack, or to which they are addicted. Have you noticed how some just absolutely immerse themselves in just one type of music? It would be due to the same energetic cause, in this person's theory, whether that music is speed metal, old school Country, or modern jazz.


Happy 2023, everybody!

 

You are correct. I will never get the interest in the Grateful Dead for their music. I do get the cultural appeal, particularly the free will gangster connection with the Hell's Angels. Everyone has at least some small part of them that would love to be a pirate, eh?

 

I love Garcia's guitar and Lesh's bass and the double drumming of Bill K and Mickey Hart and the fact that their songs in concerts are never exactly the same

 

Def not my style either. But then again, The Beatles are still pretty popular, and I can't stand em. World takes all kinds...

 

I wrote a friend today about this thread and he helped me understand that the Dead wouldn't irritate me so much if their fans didn't think they were gods. I doubt the Dead ever thought they were as good as their fans did.

 

The Beatles have done much to annoy me, but I like the following:

You Can't Do That

Revolution

Twist and Shout (you should see me dance to it)

I am the Walrus

Drive My Car

Dr. Robert

Fixing a Hole

Back in the USSR

 

They're prolly a lot better if ur hearing them live while tripping balls while surrounded by other people tripping balls. I havn't tested this theory...

 

If somebody asked me if I liked the grateful dead I wouldn't know how to answer what I've heard I find tedious but they have a bunch of stuff.

I feel the same way about the Allman brothers

 

That is an oddly idiosyncratic list of songs. That is, they are of various different styles and types of songs, and not all equally notable. What I mean, is that certain songs, whether or not one especially likes them, stand out more prominently, by virtue of being more unique (a lot of songs on the White Album, and on Sgt Pepper's, for instance, fall into this category). Your choices of "I Am the Walrus," and "Fixing A Hole," qualify as different from the rest. It is also hard to find another Beatles song that sounds like "Revolution." But it is more difficult to understand why you would pick out only the two tunes "You Can't Do That," and "Twist and Shout." What do you think of these songs?:

 

Ripple is a fantastic song. Their only good song, IMO.

Their documentary was a lot of fun to watch, though. I’m weird like that.

 

I agree with none of that, lol. *oops* except I am the Walrus.

For me, it’s more like Penny Lane, most of Sgt. Pepper’s, Hey Jude and Ob La De Ob La Da.

 

Continuing on the same tack, as my last post, if one is choosing Beatle songs, a la carte, songs like "Happiness Is A Warm Gun," "Bungalow Bill," "Eleanor Rigby," "Come Together," "Lucy In the Sky with Diamonds," "Tomorrow Never Knows," "Please Don't Be Long," "I Want You (She's So Heavy)," "Long, Long, Long (one of my favorites)," "Rocky Raccoon," and so forth, spring to mind, as being not like the others. I guess I'll give you that "Drive My Car," is a bit unique, though this harkens back to my first argument, that tastes are very individualized: that song is kind of a stinker, in my book (though at least you hadn't chosen "Paperback Writer"). The one that you did choose, "Back in the U.S.S.R." was definitely meant as a novelty song, as well (of which, again, I am not a fan). Does the subject matter of "Dr. Robert," contribute to your enjoyment of it?-- because that is kind of an obscure song.

Again, I am only curious as to why these particular songs stand out to you-- not making any value judgements. I know that my own tastes differ from those of the masses, as well as from the authoritative views, for which, in both cases, I am glad. For example, you will typically hear Sgt. Pepper's called the Beatles best album, by the "experts," but it is not among my own favorites. On it, I much prefer the song "She's Leaving Home," to "Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite." Nor do I care for the title track. A Day In the Life is good, and, like most of those that Ringo sings, With a Little Help from My Friends, is enjoyable. But I am rambling. I now see that @Curious Always has posted that she likes "Ob-la-di, Ob-la-da," which I find very boring, and "most of Sgt. Pepper's," so probably one of those few that she doesn't much care for, is She's Leaving Home, one of those that I like most. As I said, music tastes are very personalized.

Here are some more Beatle tracks that-- unlike the last set, which were based on other songs you like-- are just based on my own tastes. I don't know how much exposure you've had to Beatle music, so maybe one of these will strike a chord, where you'd not known that one had existed.








Rubber Soul is a really good album, so I could pick plenty of songs-- I've Just Seen A Face; You Won't See Me; I'm looking Through You-- but I'm going to move on to the Revolver album, also with its share of good songs, because I find it interesting that Paul McCartney says that this is the only song of his, that John ever complemented, as being a good song:

 

@DEFinning, no, I love that song. Ob la do is just goofy be-bopping around the house stuff that feels happy.

I find Fixing a hole fairly intolerable and also Within you. Blech.

 

You like Twist and Shout. You'd like it even better if you saw me dance to it. Well, you would!

 

This is kind of funny--
I just noticed a similarity between a song from the British release of the Revolver album-- unfortunately not part of the American version of this album, which I daily listened to, as a teenager-- and a much later collaboration, between McCartney and Elvis Costello. Does anyone else hear the resemblance?