The Great October Socilist Revolution.

It was so much better in the tsarist times. People lived

 

They were. As to Stalin Communist Manifesto not only included murder, rape and looting, but also building a dictatorship state.

 

support these retarded comments

 

i did. read the manifesto

 

quote the relevant sections

 

you are a pain in the neck. i am not going to - live by your beliefs...

In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property
Abolition [Aufhebung] of the family!


The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality.

The supremacy of the proletariat will cause them to vanish

We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. 4.
Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. 5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.


[lenin above' stalin below]




6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

2.
proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organise itself as a class, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production

happy?

 

no, where does it mention "murder, rape and looting... also building a dictatorship state"?

The closest you have is the working class forcibly sweeping away capitalism. Well there was no democracy in those days so how else were they gonna do it?

Two people died in the Russian revolution. And that was a backward country in the middle of WW1 in which 3 million Russians had died.

The killing going on was the capitalists fighting over global real estate.

 

You cannot abolish private property without murder, looting and rape. You cannot abolish family without

it is a mental state of hatred, greed, deviation to dream about such a process.

you need enjoy the process of murdering rebels and etc...

one thing are words, other thing are action to put them in life

Capitalism is a term invented by Marx, it does not have too much to do to reality

russian revolution killed millions in the most torturing way. Stalin stopped murder for sake of murder, looting for sake of looting, rape for sake of rape - he is the most if not the only level headed in the whole gang of mental deviants, socyopath, psychpath and sadists.

 

Every word of that is 100% wrong.

Private property is the means of production. Abolition means nationalisation. A government can do that by passing a law. There is no murder or rape involved.

Two people died in the Russian revolution, not millions, you are wrong. A few tens of thousand died in the civil war, the capitalists started that. It was a war.

Capitalism may have been coined as a term by Marx, but it goes back to the English civil war when the capitalists launched a revolution against the feudal regime. Then it happened in France and Holland. Major change like that does need some force. But nowadays hopefully we have democracy, so it wouldnt be so bad.

Dont exaggerate. There was no rape and the only killing was in defence of the revolution.

Stalin however used mass murder to squash any chance of socialism in the USSR. He was the psycopath.

Khrushchev:

"He (Stalin) discarded the Leninist method of convincing and educating, he abandoned the method of ideological struggle for that of administrative violence, mass repressions and terror"

"Was it necessary to annihilate such people? We are deeply convinced that, had Lenin lived, such an extreme method would not have been used against any of them. "

Speech to 20th Congress of the C.P.S.U.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/khrushchev/1956/02/24.htm

 

Private property does not mean private property?
Abolition does not mean abolition?

Punk.


Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels can been done without murdering, looting and raping them?

Punk.


punk, don't quote me the sick stuff. I was feeling it on my skin and shoved into my throat.

Surgeons from aorund the world report about their achivements.
American - we had a guy with a leg cut off, and we saw it back, he walks.
Japanise - we had a guy with his penis cut off, we saw it back, he has children
Soviet - we had a guy a fell into a coal mine. we found only his butt and ears, we saw the ears to the butt and the guy ruled a country over 10 years.

Soviet joke about Kruschev. http://images.wikia.com/turtledove/images/9/94/Khruschev.jpg

 

I'm always amazed at the idiocy of the Trotskyist assertions.Just one of them:

At first.Where did you get the idea that real socialism cannot collapse? Just from nowhere,it is a nude matter.What was the couse of English or French Restorations when countries were "thrown back into a dead era" (Marx),because of their capitalism was "wrong","not real"?I think even a complete trot would hesitate to say it.

"If the exploiters are defeated in one country only...they still remain stronger ( Got it,dude? - G.W.) than the exploited, for the international connections of the exploiters are enormous."

"The transition from capitalism to communism takes an entire historical epoch. Until this epoch is over, the exploiters inevitably cherish the hope of restoration, and this hope turns into attempts at restoration" ( Lenin. http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/prrk/equality.htm ).

The total balance of forces of socialism - capitalism was not in favor of socialism - this is the only matter of the defeat of socialism.

At second. "Collapsed back to capitalism you say.Thus you unwittingly recognize that the Soviet system was higher,that it was more progressive,that in fact up to now it was an apex of human development. Then why in the hell you constantly heatedly attack it!!??. There are no three-sided barricades,you are on the side of the reactionary imperialism o ron the side of the progressive Soviet system - one or another.Attacking the real socialism you defence capitalism - such is a dialectics,is it over your head?

Another Trot's pearl :

Where are the examples of deformed feudal or capitalist states?They often accuse Stalin in bonapartism,therefore French bourgoise state under Napoleon was deformed,too,therefore it poorly expressed or didn't express at all the interests of the ruling class?Idiocy of this assertion is clear,therefore is clear the idiocy of the "deformed worker's state" term.

Anyway again unwittingly you explain the class essence of the Soviet system - a worker's state ( calling it "deformed" is a matter of your wrong taste and nothing more).

Look,if to think a little both your arguments turn against you:

- the Soviet system was the most progressive;

- the countries of the Soviet block were worker's states.

I think it is enough for a start.

 

there was no revolution in october. It was a coup d' etat.
The revolution happened in February.

 

Read the Communist Manifesto properly

"The French Revolution, for example, abolished feudal property in favour of bourgeois property.

The distinguishing feature of Communism is not the abolition of property generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois private property is the final and most complete expression of the system of producing and appropriating products, that is based on class antagonisms, on the exploitation of the many by the few.

In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.

We Communists have been reproached with the desire of abolishing the right of personally acquiring property as the fruit of a man’s own labour, which property is alleged to be the groundwork of all personal freedom, activity and independence.

Hard-won, self-acquired, self-earned property! Do you mean the property of petty artisan and of the small peasant, a form of property that preceded the bourgeois form? There is no need to abolish that; the development of industry has to a great extent already destroyed it, and is still destroying it daily.

Or do you mean the modern bourgeois private property?

But does wage-labour create any property for the labourer? Not a bit. It creates capital, i.e., that kind of property which exploits wage-labour, and which cannot increase except upon condition of begetting a new supply of wage-labour for fresh exploitation. Property, in its present form, is based on the antagonism of capital and wage labour. Let us examine both sides of this antagonism.

To be a capitalist, is to have not only a purely personal, but a social status in production. Capital is a collective product, and only by the united action of many members, nay, in the last resort, only by the united action of all members of society, can it be set in motion.

Capital is therefore not only personal; it is a social power.

When, therefore, capital is converted into common property, into the property of all members of society, personal property is not thereby transformed into social property. It is only the social character of the property that is changed. It loses its class character.

Let us now take wage-labour.

The average price of wage-labour is the minimum wage, i.e., that quantum of the means of subsistence which is absolutely requisite to keep the labourer in bare existence as a labourer. What, therefore, the wage-labourer appropriates by means of his labour, merely suffices to prolong and reproduce a bare existence. We by no means intend to abolish this personal appropriation of the products of labour, an appropriation that is made for the maintenance and reproduction of human life, and that leaves no surplus wherewith to command the labour of others. All that we want to do away with is the miserable character of this appropriation, under which the labourer lives merely to increase capital, and is allowed to live only in so far as the interest of the ruling class requires it. "

well the emigrants are not there are they? And the rebels are presumably people who fight the socialist state, terrorists and people trying to start civil war. However confiscation is not looting and there is no rape or murder.

Russia was not socialist. However it did develop faster than America up to the 1970s. And that included some medical advances.

 

An eloquent silence of a persone who promised to destroy me.It seems he could not find answers in his trot's sources!

But let's continue a seance of disclosure of trotskyism.

At first.Bureacracy wasn't a caste for the caste is something closed and in the USSR the way to the top was open in principle for everyone.Remember biographies of the Soviet leaders:all of them born in ordinary families,Khrushchev began his career as a miner, Brezhnevas a surveyor, Chernenko as a farm laborer, Gorbachev as a combiner.All party workers of all ranks had a similar biographies.Thus bureacracy wasn't a caste.

At second. The bureaucracy was not a class, it was only an instrument in the hands of the dominant class.

Of course,Lenin was absolutely right when he said that "we have a workers' state with bureaucratic deformations".And until the bureaucracy exist,it would exist the bureaucratic deformations to some extent.The only remedy for the bureaucracy is not a "turnover" or a "Soviet control "- all this is a pseudosolutions of a problem - the real solution is the elimination of the division of labor on the mental and physical,wich will come under communism.

There is no doubt that this phenomenon has taken hypertrophic shape in the late Soviet Union, but at some stage the bureaucracy is not only inevitable, but it also plays a progressive role.In 1930s it became clear that the world revolution is delayed, and fast division of labor within the country could not be destroyed quickly - it will take decades - appeared the problem of training the intelligentsia, which could learn advanced techniques.In order to grow rapidly this intelligentsia they had to enter some inequality. It was necessary to create better living conditions for so-called "bureaucracy" to make it more likely originated. Of course, it was a reproduction of inequality, of injustice (but it is no comparison with the inequalities and injustices of capitalism.)To introduce new technology,to develope the productive forces (without it the bureaurocracy cannot be destroyed) was inpossible without a bureaurocracy - that is the dialectic of the real,non-fictional socialism.

At third.

"The first phase of communism, therefore, cannot yet provide justice and equality; differences, and unjust differences, in wealth will still persist, but the exploitation of man by man will have become impossible because it will be impossible to seize the means of production--the factories, machines, land, etc.--and make them private property." ( Lenin ) http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch05.htm#s3

Thus,a relative inequality existed in the USSR does not prove the absence of socialism.

But the Soviet system provided a total equality in the rights to employment, housing, education and health care.Ther is no non-socialist states that can give their people such rights.

To be continued.

 

Lenin and Trotsky took the average wage and lived in partitioned rooms in an old school.

Ok so Stalin lived a relatively austere life compared to what he could have. However here is the centre courtyard of his private summer home.



and his small pool



pool table



not too austere obviously.

 

I must admit,communism looks great on paper,but when you factor in human nature,and what power does to people the outcome is painfully predictable....

You also need to learn proper history,the Russian people were slaughtered by the Jews,, Jewish finance funded the revolution,which was a Jewish led rebellion,all the top commissars were Jews,and the average Russian was fighting against them by the time it was all said and done.....Communism is so impotent that Western corporate power had to go over there and build the nation for them,they were too incompetent......That is what you get when you have that kind of system,every single time.

In the first government of Communist Russia there were only 13 ethnic Russian Commissars and more than 300 Jewish Commissars out of a total of 384 Commissars. The billionaire New York Jew Jacob Schiff was the revolution's chief financier. Jews were 1.7% of the population of Russia.

"With the rise of the Soviet regime...never has the world witnessed such a spectacular change of front on the part of a great state toward Jews...The State which previously did not employ any Jews at all, now employs in White Russia 61% Jewish Officials...A Jew is commander in chief of the Ukrainian Army; a Jew is President of the State Bank; Jews occupy almost all important ambassadorial positions of the Soviet Union; the universities, professions, judiciary and administration, have now a greater percentage of Jews than any other nationality. Anti-Semitism has been declared a state offense, and is punished as counter-revolution. Opinion Magazine (Dec. 1933)


"The Bolsheviks had promised to give the workers the industries, mines, etc., and to make them 'masters of the country.' In reality, never has the working class suffered such privations as those brought about by the so-called epoch of 'socialization.' In place of the former capitalists a new 'bourgeoisie' has been formed, composed of 100 PERCENT JEWS. Only an insignificant number of former Jewish capitalists left Russia after the storm of the Revolution. All the other Jews residing in Russia enjoy the special protection of Stalin's most intimate adviser, the Jew Lazare Kaganovitch. All the big industries and factories, war products, railways, big and small trading, are virtually and effectively in the hands of Jews, while the working class figures only in the abstract as the 'patroness of economy.'
The wives and families of Jews possess luxurious cars and country houses, spend the summer in the best climatic or bathing resorts in the Crimea and Caucasus, are dressed in costly Astrakhan coats; they wear jewels, gold bracelets and rings, send to Paris for their clothes and articles of luxury. Meanwhile the laborer, deluded by the revolution, drags on a famished existence. (Giornale d'Italia, February 17, 1938, M. Butenko, former Soviet Charge d'Affairs at Bucharest; Free Press (London) March, 1938; The Rulers of Russia, Denis Fahey)



SPANISH CIVIL WAR From 1936-1939, when Stalin's "International Brigade" forces were dispatched to Spain to fight the Catholics, Jewish Communists comprised the largest faction of his troops, "More than 40,000 volunteers fought in the International Brigade...A huge number of the volunteers were Jews: between 7,000 and 10,000 of the internationals as a whole, more than one-third of them Americans." Jewish Communist Milton Wolff was the last commander of the American contingent. Rabbi Hyman Katz joined in order to fight Spanish Christians. (cf. Jeffrey Sharlet, "Troublemakers," Pakn Treger, Fall, 1997, pp. 16, 18 and 24).
__________

 

Top Jewish Communists

(aliases are listed in parentheses).

(At least one hundred Soviet generals were Jewish (cf. Canadian Jewish News, April 19, 1989). Many were eliminated in Stalin's purges of the 1930's.

V.I. Lenin, supreme dictator

Leon Bronstein (Trotsky): supreme commander of the Soviet Red Army

Grigory Apfelbaum (Zinoviev): executive, Soviet Secret Police

Solomon Lozovsky: deputy Soviet foreign minister

Maxim Wallach (Litvinov): Soviet foreign minister

Jacob Sverdlov: first president of the Soviet Union.

Jacob Yurovsky: commander, Soviet Secret Police

Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich: chief mass murderer for Stalin, ordered the deaths of millions and the wholesale destruction of Christian monuments and churches.

Mikhail Kaganovich: deputy commissar of heavy industry, supervisor of slave labor, brother of Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich

Rosa Kaganovich: Stalin's mistress; sister of Lazar

Moiseyevich Kaganovich

Paulina Zhemchuzina: member of the Central Committee and wife of Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov

Olga Bronstein: officer, Soviet Cheka Secret Police, sister of Trotsky, wife of Kamenev

Genrikh Yagoda: chief of Soviet Secret Police. Killed 200,000 Christians building a canal.

Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel: founders of the Gulag death camp system

Lev Inzhir, commissar for Soviet death camp transit and administration

Boris Berman: executive officer of the Soviet Secret Police

K.V. Pauker: chief of operations, Soviet NKVD Secret Police

Firin, Rappoport, Kogan, Zhuk: commissars of death camps and slave labor during the construction of the White Sea; Baltic Canal

M.I. Gay: commander, Soviet Secret Police

Slutsky and Shpiegelglas: commanders, Soviet Secret Police

Isaac Babel: officer, Soviet Secret Police

Leiba Lazarevich Feldbin (Alexander Orlov): commander, Soviet Red Army; officer, Soviet Secret Police

Feldbin was chief of Soviet Security in the Spanish Civil War. Said to have supervised the massacre of Catholic priests and peasants in Spain

Yona Yakir: general, Soviet Red Army, member of the Central Committee

Dimitri Shmidt: general, Soviet Red Army

Yakov ("Yankel") Kreiser: general, Soviet Red Army

Miron Vovsi: general, Soviet Red Army

David Dragonsky: general, Soviet Red Army

Grigori Shtern: general, Soviet Red Army

Mikhail Chazkelevich: general, Soviet Red Army

Shimon Kirvoshein: general, Soviet Red Army

Arseni Raskin: deputy-commander, Soviet Red Army

Haim Fomin, commander of Brest-Litovsk, Soviet Red Army

Sergei Eisenstein: director of communist propaganda films

Ilya Ehrenburg, Soviet Minister

Solomon Mikhoels: commissar of Soviet propaganda

Mark Donsky, Leonid Lukov, Yuli Reisman, Vasily

Grossman, Yevgeny Gabrilovich, Boris Volchok, Yevgeny

Khaldei: Soviet propagandists

Nikolai Bukharin: Lenin's chief theorist

Samuel Agursky: commissar

Karl Radek: member, Central Committee

Mikhail Gruzenberg (Borodin) commissar

A.A. Yoffe: commissar

David Ryazanov: advisor to Lenin

Lev Grigorievich Levin: physician, poisoner of Stalin's enemies

Lev Rosenfeld (Kamenev): member of the Central Committee

Ivan Maisky: Soviet Ambassador to Britain

Itzik Solomonovich Feffer: commissar, Soviet Secret Police.

Abraham Sutskever: Soviet terrorist-partisan

Mark Osipovich Reizen: Soviet propagandist, winner of three Stalin Prizes

Lev Leopold Trepper: Soviet espionage officer

Zakharovich Mekhlis: top executioner for Stalin

 

And finally:all Trot's bla bla bla is about the Soviet state,it's policy,it's leaders,etc. etc.,that is about the things called superstructure,but they never say a word about the basis. However,it is impossible to talk about the presence or the absence of socialism in the USSR without the examining the basis of the USSR.

Let's look the changes occured in the USSR in it's history.The Soviet society at different times were different. We can distinguish three stages of its development. The first -up to 1939, the second - from 1939 to 1965 and the third - from 1965 to 1989 . Of course, the designated time limits are rather relative.

The first stage- up to 1939 .A cavalry attack at capitalism undertaken after the October revolution has bogged down, as the productive forces in Russia have not yet grown to the socialist relations.It was impossible to organize planned non-marketable economy in a country where the main producers were millions of peasant households. As a result, in 1921 they had to introduce the NEP, which was, in the words of Lenin, "the restoration of capitalism to a large extent."

During this period even state-owned industrial enterprises operated on a commercial basis. In April 1923 a decree of the Central Executive Committee "On the state-owned industrial enterprises operating on the principles of commercial accounting (trusts)."was published. It was pointed out that the trusts are organized in order to obtain maximum profit and the state treasury does not respond for their debts. Enterprises received a wide economic autonomy: they had the right to set the price on their products themselves and to act freely in the market as independent exchange economy. If this was a stop then really the revolution could not be considered a socialist.

The retreat ended in 1929.In the same 1929 was adopted a decision of the CPSU (b) Central Committee "On the reorganization of industrial management", whereby the main indicator of the enterprise now became a distinction between the desired and actual cost, with a subject to the requirements for product quality. As a result of these changes the estimated income lost it's catalytic function and retained only an account function. This situation persisted until the reforms of 1965.

The second stage - from 1939 to 1965. As a result of the "socialist offensive along the whole front" in 1939 in the Soviet economy was formed a fundamentally different situation in comparison with 1921, when they had to introduce the NEP. Сollectivization and industrialization finished. Kulaks no longer existed as a class, the small-scale peasant farms were replaced by the collective farms, a large-scale industry appeared. Private production had totally disappeared. State-owned enterprises, as well as collective farms operated on a single state plan. A deliberate policy to replace the commodity-money relations by planning relations was carried out.

"There are two types of production: the capitalist, including the state-capitalist, type, where there are two classes, where production is carried on for the profit of the capitalist; and there is the other type, the socialist type of production, where there is no exploitation, where the means of production belong to the working class, and where the enterprises are run not for the profit of an alien class, but for the expansion of industry in the interests of the workers as a whole" (Stalin. http://www.marxists.org/reference/ar...my_as_a_Whole_)

The work "not for profit", but "for the expansion of industry in the interests of the workers as a whole"" became a reality of this time.

Just at this stage the most consistent movement toward socialism was carried out.

The third stage - from 1965 to 1989..The economic reform of 1965 gave priority over of value indicators over natural and strengthened the role of profit.The reform added to the accounting function of the profit also an estimating and a stimulating functions.As a result, enterprises now had their own interest, not always consistent with the public interest.Quite often a situation arised when from the standpoint of the state plan it was nessecary to do one thing, but from the standpoint of self-supporting enterprise's interests the other.Economic instruments worked against the plan.

The law of value began insistently to carve the way.We can not say that the reform of 1965 has restored capitalism, but the movement gone in this direction.There was still the plan expressed in natural indicators, the monopoly of foreign trade, there was no free pricing, but all this were slowly blurred.Thus, in the 1970's State Committee rejected as unfounded 30% of claims of the enterprises to raise prices for their products.The pursuit of profits started.Finally market forces were liberated by Perestroyka.

In 1989 the law "On concerns" was adopted which transformed enterprises into a separate manufacturer. This was followed by price liberalization and privatization. The private property appeared, and with it appeared the owners and the employees. The restoration of capitalism was over.

Mr.Punk do not like the changes in the USSR occured after 1924,not after 1989 or at least after 1965,but after 1924.Let him explain what changes in the basis he so dislike.It turnes out that he dislikes just socialist transformation of the basis.

 

this is all nonsense, do some research

"Among members of the Central Executive Committee of the Congress of Soviets in 1929, there were 402 ethnic Russians, 95 Ukrainians, 55 Jews, 26 Latvians, 13 Poles, and 12 Germans – Jewish representation had declined from 60 members in 1927."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism#Jews_in_the_Bolshevik_party

"The Original People's Commissars

The first council elected by the Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets was composed as follows:
People's Commissar Original incumbent Death
Chairman Vladimir Lenin Natural causes 1924
Secretary Nikolai Gorbunov Executed 1938
People's Commissariat for Agriculture of the RSFSR Vladimir Milyutin Died in prison 1937
People's Commissariat for Military Affairs of the RSFSR Vladimir Antonov-Ovseyenko

Nikolai Krylenko
Executed 1939

Executed 1938
People's Commissariat for Naval Affairs of the RSFSR Pavel Dybenko Executed 1938
People's Commissariat for Trade and Industry of the RSFSR Viktor Nogin Natural causes 1924
People's Commissariat for Education of the RSFSR Anatoly Lunacharsky Natural causes 1933
People's Commissariat for Food Ivan Teodorovich Executed 1937
People's Commissariat for Foreign Affairs of the RSFSR Leon Trotsky Assassinated 1940
People's Commissariat for Interior Affairs of the RSFSR Alexei Rykov Executed 1938
People's Commissariat for Justice of the RSFSR Georgy Oppokov Executed 1937
People's Commissariat for Labour of the RSFSR Alexander Shlyapnikov Executed 1937
People's Commissariat of Nationalities Joseph Stalin Died (Poisoned?) 1953
People's Commissariat for Posts and Telegraphs of the RSFSR Nikolai Glebov-Avilov Executed 1937
People's Commissariat for Railways of the RSFSR (vacant)
People's Commissariat for Finance Ivan Skvortsov-Stepanov Natural causes 1928"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_People's_Commissars#The_Original_People.27s_Commissars