The impeachment process has some serious flaws.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Whether a President is found guilty or innocent depends upon the political alignment of the President, House and Senate. This makes the process politically partisan thus biased. If the House and Senate are controlled by different parties, this all but ensures that the President is safe from being removed from office. If the House and Senate are controlled by the same party, this all but ensures that a President from the same party will not be held accountable, and if the President is from a different party this ensures that a conviction is all but certain.

    Political parties lack the objectivity to check themselves or those they oppose. Tribalism makes us predictable in that if we like someone we will either give them a pass, minimize the negatives or rationalize them away. Yet when it is someone we dislike we go fangs out when they do a like thing. Tribalism makes hypocrites out of all of us but we tend to be oblivious to our own hypocrisy and hyper aware of the hypocrisy of those we dislike. We are oblivious to our own bias because in the moment it is all but indistinguishable from objectivity. To add insult to injury we humans suck at self assessment which makes seeing our bias problematic.

    Any who have been to counseling for a relationship problem know that looking inward to find our own flaws and identity how we are part of the problem is what is recommended. Make no mistake about it, the growing rift between the left and right is a relationship problem which will never be solved by both sides pointing the bony finger of indignation outward while ignoring the bias and hypocrisy of their own side. If the left and the right spent as much time in introspection as they do analyzing the opposition, this would do more than anything else to close the distance between the two sides. Sadly this will not happen as to do so is to go against our tribal nature which is innately ingrained in us all.

    We need to find a better way to investigate and prosecute a sitting a President as allowing political partisans to do it is theater of the absurd.
     
  2. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    16,795
    Likes Received:
    2,165
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh, here we go again with the system is flawed because Hillary lost.
     
  3. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,210
    Likes Received:
    2,087
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    This whole damn thing has been absurd since day 1. For Christ’s sake democrats, find something useful to do. You are making the next election too easy for the republicans. It takes all the sport out of it.
     
  4. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,210
    Likes Received:
    2,087
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    maybe the point is to let the president focus on running the damn country without having to worry about being the victim of a partisan witch-hunt every other week. Democrat behavior is a case in point of why things are the way they are. A president needs to be able to do his job.
     
    Darthcervantes and ButterBalls like this.
  5. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That would be to never hold a President accountable. Bother sides have a long history of going on political witch hunts. Tribalism makes us predictable in that when it is a politician we like then we call it a witch hunt, but if it is someone we dislike that is being investigated then we call it an objective investigation into possible criminal conduct. Tribalism makes hypocrites out of all of us.
     
  6. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, it is flawed because right and wrong are decided by biased political partisans. FYI, I am neither a Democrat nor a liberal nor a Clinton supporter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  7. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Both the Republicans and Democrats are the problem. Both are rotten to the core with bias. I am not a Democrat nor a liberal.
     
  8. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    6,411
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Since day one half the country has gone after Trump with the support of the MSM. Imagine what foreign leaders must think of our great country. Trump has almost 3 years in the Oval office and is doing just fine. Leave the man alone and let him finish another year and then the people will pick a leader. Simple as that. Hillary are you listening? For God's sake you, the MSM, and the democrats should think of our country rather than your power.
     
    ButterBalls likes this.
  9. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    20,699
    Likes Received:
    6,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The victim narrative fails to match up to reason.
     
    rcfoolinca288, robini123 and Phyxius like this.
  10. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I completely agree that the left is riddled with bias. Yet the right is also riddled with bias. For this reason, deciding if a President broke a law should not be left to a bunch of biased political partisans.
     
    Marcotic and rcfoolinca288 like this.
  11. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    16,231
    Likes Received:
    4,403
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What is your suggestion?

    The whole point of this tripartite government is to separate the various powers of the federal government. Get all three hands working together and you will get things done. If any one of those hands decides not to play ball, then nothing happens.

    Like it or not, but Trump is president, and that means he controls the executive, and the executive is charged with executing the will of the people (congress). There was a lot of debate leading up to even having a federal government, and even then, there were the federalists and anti-federalists battling it out with each other in a very partisan manner.

    Personally, I would be in favor of getting rid of the federal government. It has proved to be a complete failure. What was supposed to be the smallest form of government has become the largest.
     
  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    15,198
    Likes Received:
    4,914
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is correct to a certain point. Considering that all Federal Judges who have ever been impeached (and who are non-partisan) have been removed by the Senate. Yet none of the Presidents have.

    But impeachment is not about convincing the other political party. It's about convincing the voters. And, in this case, despite the fact that Americans are highly polarized, we are well on our way to obtaining a significant majority that believes Trump should be removed. If the tendency continues, and Republicans refuse to do their duty, they will pay for it at the polls.

    There is no perfect way, but the best, in my opinion, would be to do away with the Presidency and become a Parliamentary system. That's not going to happen any time soon, of course. But we should start thinking about it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    robini123 likes this.
  13. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A good question to whitch I am not sure I have a good answer. Obviously those involved would need to be objective. A group of politically unaffiliated is a thought, but simply being politically unaffiliated does not necessarily mean one is objective. Even if we could find a group of objective politically unaffiliated people, there is no guarantee that the left and right would respect and accept their judgment.
     
  14. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You make some good points. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  15. struth

    struth Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    16,981
    Likes Received:
    7,681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are certainly flaws in the system, and we have seen massive abuses of power by the Dems since 2016 in this field. I am glad the President...after fully and totally cooperation with Mueller is putting his foot down to the Dems in the House. You want to impeach...open up formal impeachment...take the vote.

    The Dems won't do that of course....because that will give the GOP members more power, and make the process more transparent.
     
  16. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    33,316
    Likes Received:
    9,068
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Into the ground
     
  17. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    6,411
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The dems and the MSM are happy to just talk and say "Trump is not above the law" and "Trump must be impeached" and "Trump abused his power" and "Trump is not presidential". They say it enough some people will believe it. Talk is cheap and now Trump is telling the dems to put up or shut up. Trump knows he has the truth and facts on his side. We'll see what happens.
     
  18. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    16,795
    Likes Received:
    2,165
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Impeachment requirements were put into place as a checks and balance and require certain level of difficulty to ensure opposition parties aren't able to negotiate the executive branch through the legislative.
     
  19. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which is undone when the guilt or innocence of a politician is based upon the political alignment of the politician, judge and jury. A biased system is an unjust system and the impeachment process is rife with bias on both sides.
     
  20. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The whole process is rigged by the fact that both sides will largely vote on party lines. An unjust system is one in which the guilt or innocence of a politician is based upon the political alignment of the politician, judge and jury. A biased system is an unjust system and the impeachment process is rife with bias on both sides.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  21. struth

    struth Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    16,981
    Likes Received:
    7,681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, I don't know....in the case of Federal Judges, which aren't newsworthy usually, we don't see that....but I agree....I think Nixon was clearly going to get removed....Johnson was clearly political, and Clinton too....
     
  22. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Both sides have a long history of obstruction yet each justify their own obstructionism while lambasting the other side when they do the same. Both the left and right are hypocrites that are guilty of accusing the other side of doing that which they are guilty of doing themselves.
     
  23. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Republicans giving Trump a pass on something that if a Democrat did would lead to a guilty verdict by the Republican held Senate reveals their hypocrisy. Those on the right who think that the Republicans would sit idly by while a Democrat President asks a foreign leader to investigate a political adversary who was a Republican front runner that may be running against the Democrat President in the next election are being intellectually dishonest. Tribalistic political loyalty makes a hypocrite out of all who align themselves with a politician and/or political party. For this reason I will forever remain politically unaffiliated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    Marcotic likes this.
  24. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    9,118
    Likes Received:
    4,600
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No more absurd than having the electoral college being the electors of our president, making our national election, which costs billions,a complete waste of money and voters time.
     
  25. struth

    struth Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    16,981
    Likes Received:
    7,681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What are they giving him a pass on? Obama did order the investigation of Trump....Clapper said he did just that.
     

Share This Page