The mentality of socialism versus capitalism

I'll use a pretty simple example here.....

A capitalist see something nice he wants, say a brand new Ford powerstroke diesel for instance. Let's say it's an $80,000 vehicle.

He says to himself damn I'd sure like to have one of those but I don't have the money.

But he decides he really wants one. He realizes that the guy driving that truck that he admired had to make the money to buy that truck for himself ( well, most people....)

So he decides if that fella could do it then so can he. So he makes that a goal and finds a way to achieve it. Eventually the persistence and determination payoff.

Now a socialist mentality, might see the same object but what they think would be completely different. Having realized they do not have the money to procure such an object for themselves, they become jealous.

They say to themselves no one needs an $80,000 vehicle that's just wasteful. Then they complain about the unfairness of life. Instead of being inspired to achieve a goal, such status symbols of success, serves only to anger them.

Really is true what they say about socialism, the goal is for everyone to be equal in their misery and poverty.

The socialist would only be happy if everyone had to drive a pinto like him.

 

After spending years living in socialist Germany and exploring all over Europe, what is striking is that, even in one of the wealthiest non-U.S. Places on Earth, it is all about learning to do without.


Let’s examine the facts:
-There is a crushing 20% sales tax on everything. There is also a TV tax, a radio tax, a dog tax, a death tax of up to 50%, and every other kind of tax you could possibly imagine…for a grand total of about 60-65% of your income (unless you have already been brutalized into poverty by this system, in which case you get welfare).

“Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” –Ronald Reagan

-There is no such thing as Central Air…people just suffer through the heat, and freeze in the Winter with these dinky little radiator-heaters (which is all most people can afford, due to staggering government utility costs).

-Gasoline is usually $7-10 per gallon (about 1.50 Euros per liter as I write this), due to the government’s insanely aggressive taxes on fuel.

-People usually cannot afford 15 or even 30-year mortgages…they often must get 50-year mortgages to purchase a home (government makes housing astronomically expensive).

-Consumers are 100% disregarded, given total crap for options, and complaints over terrible service are completely ignored.

-It takes six hours to do half a load of laundry (government forces people to use these tiny, ‘environmentally-friendly’ laundry machines).

-Showers are the size of phone booths, water heaters are often woefully inadequate, and all water services cost an absolute fortune.

-Closets do not exist. The only thing you can do to store and organize your clothing is to purchase a huge, bulky piece of furniture called a “wardrobe” for every bedroom, which leaves you with very little actual living space in the already incredibly tiny homes Europeans must deal with.

-You can’t wash your own car in your own driveway. That might hurt the environment, so you must take your vehicle to a government-approved car wash and wildly overpay someone else to do it for you.

-Even the “big,” “Americanized” trash bins hold no more than a wastebasket of garbage…for two weeks of waste (no matter how many people live in your home). If the can is overflowing, they will not take your garbage, and every single item is required by law to be organized into separate color-coded recycling bags.

-You cannot even name your own child without government approval. There is literally an agency you must register with upon giving birth that decides whether or not your child’s name is acceptable to the government.

-Gun rights do not exist. The only way to get access to any firearms whatsoever is through a jaw-droppingly extreme permit/licensing process that involves taking elaborate tests, paying fees, and proving to the government you have a “legitimate” reason for wanting a gun (hunting, target shooting, etc.).

And even if you do manage to jump through all the hoops required to get a gun, you can still only keep it if you regularly verify to the government that you are actively using it for the purpose you listed, or it will be confiscated.


-Hunting and fishing also require an insane process of government-mandated training, tests, fees, licenses, permits and endless other restrictions.
-Having extreme views is illegal. Being a Neo-Nazi is a crime, as is questioning the Holocaust, or anything that could possibly be construed as “hate speech” by the left. Flipping someone off is also a criminal offense.

-It costs thousands of dollars to get a license, own a car, and pay for the more than $1 million of auto insurance you are forced to carry…and there are speed cameras everywhere, and there is no gray area (my boss couldn’t even get out of a ticket from when he sped his wife to the hospital to give birth).

-Nearly two-thirds of YouTube’s top 1,000 videos have been banned in Germany due to the fanatical German Journalists’ Union (DJV) absurdly demanding that artists be paid for each and every video that in any way uses any part of their music–even if it is just some random user having part of some random song on in the background of their video.

-Company web sites are usually primitive and have inaccurate/outdated information, while almost no one answers their phone and you are forced to show up repeatedly during (often ridiculously narrow) operating hours to get the simplest product or service. Germans only work 36-39 hours per week, and the French have a 35-hour work week.

It goes on and on, and on.

Democrats, who used to absolutely crucify people for pointing out their socialist ideas and beliefs, now openly defend this disastrous, time-disproven ideology (see deregulation and lower taxes in China in the 1980s, in India in the 1990s, in Ireland in the early 2000s, and the left’s class warfare insanity that destroyed the US economy in 200 as it punishes success, rewards failure, and lures self-reliant individuals into total nanny state dependence through handouts.

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/heres-what-life-in-socialist-europe-is-really-like


Usually, they try to justify it by arguing that Europe has superior, more affordable education and health care (as if freedom were irrelevant and all that mattered was being better-maintained cattle). But when you actually live there, you can’t help but notice that there is more to the story…as when you discover that you have to pay a small fortune to get your kids through grade school. Or that you still have to pay through the nose for insurance every month, cover all your own prescription costs, and sit on waiting lists to see a “free” doctor.
The bottom line: The only difference between the nanny state socialist control freaks of Europe and the ruthless Third World tyrants they condemn, is that in Europe, they bankrupt, impoverish, and enslave people through the charade of voting, as opposed to at gun point…to maintain the appearance of legitimacy.

Think about that next time you’re sitting in the lap of luxury listening to Democrats talk about how well socialism works.

 

I've heard stories from military guy stationed in Berlin, before the wall came down.

On some occasions they would travel to East Berlin to go to a restaurant. This was more done as a demonstration vs going to a good place.

When they entered, the restaurants were always empty save for the few staff who almost sneered at them. Service routinely took forever.

Apparently the staff were paid a flat rate and so they resented customers because it meant more work for them.

They also could not receive tips so there was no incentive for better service.

 

‘Socialist’ Nordic Countries Are Actually Moving Toward Private Health Care.

Rising support for socialism in the United States comes at a time when politicians like Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., promise a great many “free” services, to be provided or guaranteed by the government.

Supporters often point to nations with large social programs, such as Canada, the United Kingdom, and the Scandinavian states, particularly when it comes to health care.

Never mind that these are not true socialist countries, but highly taxed market economies with large welfare states. That aside, they do offer a government-guaranteed health service that many in America wish to emulate.

The problem for their argument is that, despite these extremely generous programs, some of these countries are seeing steady a growth of private health insurance.

“Medicare for All,” the prominent socialized medicine proposal in the United States, is most similar to the Canadian system in which providers bill the regional office administering the program.

In Medicare for All, there would be no cost-sharing schemes and all coverage would be comprehensive, including prescription drugs, dental, vision, and other services deemed necessary by the secretary of health and human services.

The Scandinavian systems are similar to Medicare for All in the respect that they use regional offices to administer reimbursements to providers.

Yet they differ in critical ways: They employ cost-sharing for certain services, they are less comprehensive in their coverage, and they allow for private health insurance plans to complement or supplement the government system to cover out-of-pocket expenses and to circumvent wait times or rationed access to specialists.

These are precisely the things Medicare for All would abolish. It’s intriguing that while socialists in America would rush to nationalize the health care system, Norwegians, Swedes, and Danes are all gradually increasing their use of private health insurance.

Between 2006 and 2016, the portion of the population covered by private insurance increased by 4% in Sweden, 7% in Norway, and 22% in Denmark.

READ MORE. ‘Socialist’ Nordic Countries Are Actually Moving Toward Private Health Care (dailysignal.com)

 

These are also smaller, ethnically homogeneous nations with a work ethic.

We don't have that in the us.

 

Another factor are young folks (the product of Public schools) thinking socialism means they get their loan debt forgiven and will get.to spend the days doing lesbian dance studies.

@crank

 

I’m so grateful that my relatives in the past came to America so I don’t have to live there or near there.

 

I have no idea whether the screed about Germany is honest or not. I don't live there.
I can say that the OP demonstrates a lack of detailed understanding of what a modern western "socialist" state is. First, each one is different in its economic structure. ISTM that the OP is an emotionally toned impression and not a genuine reflection of "socialism".
Like every economic structure, it has its positives and negatives and those are coloured by which side of the average income you are. There was a glib assumption in the OP that everyone can achieve but that some don't care to. That is not reality. Ask black kids in poor environments why they sell drugs across county lines. Answer...because they have no other way of making money.

I can speak about the UK health service with some experience. It is a mess. Time has made it incapable of offering all things to all people and it costs the taxpayer around 150 BILLION pounds per year and going up to keep it barely afloat.
The opportunity to buy private health care is not proof of the collapse of socialism. It is proof of the options/freedom of choice those in Europe enjoy. In France you are covered by the state for serious conditions such a heart and cancer but have the option to buy extra cover va insurance companies (this is called a mutual) nad you can choose what you want covered (including hearing aids, glasses/lenses and dental care) or merely a small package which costs less. I don't see this as socialism. I see this as capitalism since you can buy what you want, but can also rely on the state if you choose. And it is the younger who don't need the extra support and are less likely to be able to afford it, while the older people needs and can afford it.
Marine speaks a lot about taxes. Again I don't know the German system of taxes but in France I have never noticed such taxes. Our income may be taxed higher than in some countries (but by no means all) and we pay a local tax towards local services but at least our verges are reliably cut, our garbage is reliable removed and our town dumps are well kept and up to date. When I lived in the UK, that was not the case. I paid and got a very patchy service in return. I feel I get value for money here.
On a larger scale, we have state owned large public services (ie rail) and privately owned corporations, lots of small private businesses. The state works in close collaboration with industries from other countries and some of that funding comes from the EU, into which the members pay for the right to take part in huge projects no one country could afford...ie Galileo or its space programme. I suppose that is technically "socialism". But necessarily so.

As for socialism elsewhere, I understand that a far higher percentage of your income to provide services in all Scandanavian countries is the norm. But so is higher wages and there is far less real poverty there. I noted when I went to Denmark that the homes were clean, modern, very comfortable, streets were clean and well surfaced, people were well clothed and ate very well. For years these countries have been voted the best places in the world to live, including happiness and mental well being. That may be due to far less stress, and not wanting 80,000 dollar trucks demanding long hours of effort to get the money to buy it.

Life in the US seems (and this is only an impression) to be judged by what you own. The more you have the better person you are. This assumption has a lot to say about the kind of economic model you design. Europeans aren't so stressed about such judgements. They are happy to live comfortably and not competitively. Example...we have two bar/cafes in town here. Over the winter months they tend to open maybe three or four days a week. The owners prefer to spend time rounding out their lives and don't feel the need to make as much money as possible.
You pay your money, you make a choice. Socialism in a mixed economy works here for the kind of life we want.

 

Is there some reason you wish to make me and my understanding the topic?

You gleaned all that from a simple example of a fundamental mentality behind the economic system?

What a very long screed you have typed out. And as far as acronyms go do you know what this one means? TLDR

 

Perhaps it is a fact that discussing socialism and capitalism isn't as simple as buying a truck.

 

Perhaps we are not all into long-winded pseudo intellectual bloviations.

 

Perhaps.

 

I believe the history of both economic systems speaks for itself loud and clearly.

But if anyone wants to hear anyone with a genuinely educated opinion on these systems I would recommend looking up what Winston Churchill has to say about socialism

 

There are three reasons people talk about socialism and they fit with three different types of people.
Type one. An ultra wealthy person that is desperate for popularity but is so disconnected from other people they don't realize that middle class aren't absolutely poverty stricken. So they think they're doing a favor to these lower income earners because they can't imagine ever having to buy a used car or fly commercial air.

The type of socialism is kind of wrapped into that it's secondary to the ego of the person preaching about it

Type 2. This is the suck up the person who values the input of celebrities because they have a lot of money they must know something that I don't. And I want desperately to be that person so I'm going to agree with everything I say.

The type of socialism support these people engage in is trying to seem sophisticated. Look how sophisticated and intelligent I am I agree with the moron pedophile dropout that has their own private jet.

Type 3 the most dangerous type. These people are bitter. They may not be poor they may be even pretty well to do but the fact that they have to spend their money and their work on something infuriates them everyone else should provide for them because everything a person needs is a human right. These are the college professors that think their job is more important than it is. I feel devalued because they don't make money commiserate with her ego. These people are intelligent typically charismatic and can manipulate type 1 and type 2 and that's why type 1 and type 2 exist. Type 1 and type 2 are too stupid to figure this out, and type 3 just once revenge for being born. Type 3 is familiar with the history and every single socialist government in history dealing with famine and exterminating dissidents. But if you only do it their way I'll get it right this time because they're smarter than everyone else.

In conclusion you get rid of type 3 type 1 and 2 disappear these people are made up of followers the same type of people that would join a cult.

 

Too learning disabled repeat?
Too lazy didn't read?
So I guess you want the short and dirty...The OP's statement is inaccurate and anecdotal.

 

Totally wrong.

 

Then don't trivialise enormous subjects and expect an intelligent reply.

As Vernan said,

"So I guess you want the short and dirty...The OP's statement is inaccurate."

I did you the courtesy of BRIEFLY explaining why. Thousands of textbooks have given you a more complete answer. If you think such subjects as the relative value of socialism and capitalism can be discussed in any meaningful way through short messages, you need to do some learning about the subject.

 

Thank you for your valuable contribution and your incredibly valuable opinion....

I will certainly give it all the weighty and due consideration it's so richly deserves....

 

Don't tell, show.

Anybody can and many people do just say what they don't like is wrong without any more rational than that it's not very rational to say.

 

Churchill was a very rich man by dint of birth, doubtful if he could have supported himself through a trade or job if he had to, was a devout Conservative of the old type and spoke of the socialism that existed 75 years ago when he too conflated socialism and communism, then in its purest theoretical and undeveloped form.
Churchill may have jointly engineered Allied forces to destroy the Third Reich but he isn't a good model for 20th or 21st century economics.

 

Physician heal thine own self.

Please describe for us a list of countries under capitalism where people have resorted to eating zoo animals and pets....

I'll wait....



I'm more interested in the mentality of the people who subscribe to either system.
I thought that was made pretty clear in my op.

And like I said the world history of both systems speaks loudly and clearly all by itself.

So perhaps you should follow your own advice and ask yourself what those histories are

 

Unfortunately rational seems to be beyond him.
Some people are just...Irrational. Trump supporters fit the description. I'm not even for socialism, but gdanm I cant stand laziness. And failing to comprehend a few simple paragraphs on the matter due to length speaks volumes to his character.

 

Your OP was a trite presentation of why you think socialism isn't to your taste.
I replied not by challenging your opinion but by showing you that in some places, it works. I also showed you one small example of HOW it works and said there are other variants of the economic system.
I note you are trying to change the subject again by diverting into history. If you want to discuss the history of both systems, please don't complain about lengthy posts. How long have you got?

 

Not nearly as loudly as not being able to stick to a topic without puerile and petty insults directed at the poster instead of the topic....

Also don't mistake a lack of caring for a lack of comprehension that's your mistake

 

You must excuse me but I think I'll place far more value on his opinion over yours.

Socialism has not changed much, the history tells the tale.