The myth of poverty

Actually, you're wrong:

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...or-examining-the-plague-of-poverty-in-america

 

Why would a rowboat be so close to a yacht in the first place? I own a large boat myself and when I come into harbor, I (and every one else) must reduce speed so that we do not cause such a wake. On open water, I would not get close to a larger boat's wake. That would be stupidity.

 

Just a concern regarding this part of your post.

What do we do about the MASSIVE number of people that lack the talent or resources to be re-educated in the higher paying career field?

And what do we do when we do have so many more people in the higher paying career field that it results in a glut of workers, causing the employers to be able to lower the pay for that field, as if the person doesn't accept the reduced pay they can easily pick another worker?

 

There are a few key things to consider here.

First, almost everyone is talented at something. The way our system is set up, it seems to assume that we should all be academics. The truth of the matter is that only about half of us fit the academic route (if that).

In countries like Germany and the Netherlands, they divide their students between academia and technical trades. In effect, they determine what each student's strengths are, and then they guide them to which field is best for them.

Because of this, most students are truly able to enter jobs best for their talents.

Our system tends to neglect technically-minded students and seems to look down on the associated trades.

I seriously doubt we'd actually have massive numbers of people incapable of getting good jobs if we'd only take a more pragmatic approach to education.

While gluts do periodically occur in some fields, this is the sort of thing that tends to fix itself. People go back to school to learn something new, or they move to a different city where their talents are more needed.

There is no system you can devise where this does not happen. Our current system has this happen already.

 

Ya know what else private schools turn out? Creationists

 

Obviously, that is based on an incorrect -- and let's face it, dishonest -- definition of "poor."

 

Did you really just cite the heritage foundation?

 

But will those 'talents' translate into a job that pays well enough to cover their bills? I suppose my talent is a good speaking voice and a great deal of patience, but customer service related jobs that I would be good for typically do not pay a lot of money.

But going back to school requires both time and money, which many people do not have. And if their job keeps getting a glut of workers, they will have to keep retraining, all the while their savings are dwindling to nothing.

What will we do then?

 

How so?

 

I keep harping about the misconception people have in which they believe the private sector can simply twist and bend in all directions to solve everyone's problems. The private sector is what it is based on supply and demand of it's products and services...which stems both domestically and globally. In no way can the private sector guarantee every person a job, or certain level of income, or job security, etc. Each person must compete for the existing job/income opportunities which number something far smaller than the number of workers. Supply and demand determines wages/income so if society creates 50% more medical doctors than needed, the wages will decrease.

Government decides how they wish to support those who do not compete for higher wages or seek additional skills and education, etc. Below some level of income these people become a greater burden on government resources, resources which are ultimately paid for by all taxpayers...or in the current governance just create more national debt. For all of those which government subsidizes, is government just handing out cash or is government getting some form of productivity in return for government subsidies? I think the WPA was a great program in which government subsidized the workers but received some wonderful tangible things in return. I always wonder if the government is supporting 10-15 million or more Americans with unemployment, SSI, Medicaid, food stamps, etc. why can't we have these people aide public school teachers in return for this support? Out of 15 million of them why can't 1 million of them be mentors?

I don't like government meddling with the private sector except for enforcing common-sense regulations and taxation. When government demands minimum wages, or tries any other forms of manipulation of the private sector...there are direct consequences of this action...

 

Maybe you have talent in a technical trade. It's hard to know without first attempting to learn the skills connected to it.

My brother started out in the academic route but now works on airplanes and will make more money than I do in a relatively academic career.

This is true, but personally, that's why I support more funding for things like student loans.

In a country where education is more affordable, switching careers is easier, and so is adaptation in a constantly changing market.

 

I can see the logic behind what you say here.

Here is my point:

I have certain 'standards' of how I want to live. I base those standards on how I grew up and my skills, etc. It's not a 'rich' lifestyle, it's more of a middle-class lifestyle. And up to a couple of years ago, I was achieving it without problem.

However, as the costs of living increase and my wages stagnate, I can no longer maintain my quality of life. I do not have the money or time to retrain into another career. I do not feel I should HAVE to. If I was able to maintain a certain quality of life with a certain amount of money, I should be able to continue to do so with the same amount of money going forward.

If I cannot, I will use any means at my disposal to make sure I can. I will use all legal means first.

I also have a lower threashold, in this case it would be me homeless and on the streets, eating out of dumpsters. I will do everything I can to avoid this point. But if I reach this point, I WILL resort to any means to escape it, legal or not.

I consider myself to be an average american. I work 40 hours a week. I pay taxes. Would you say I am not average? If I am, there are way more of people like me than there are of people that are not. What are the people that are not like me going to do when the people that are like me are pushed to the wall and start using violence to get what they want?

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Perhaps you are right. And if the government was willing to pay for my college, I would try to make the time to find out. But I highly doubt that will happen any time soon.

 

Our whole educational system, K12 is geared to preparing children for college, while ignoring the fact that a lot of them don't have the desire for academics, and more don't have the ability, and the fact that there are only so many jobs for college grads. Meanwhile, skilled trades have trouble filling jobs.

And, people who have neither trades nor academics need to take the less desirable jobs. There is no better motivation to improve one's job skills than picking peaches, and that's the voice of experience talking.

 

A lot of people are in your position, and I can sympathize with it.

Granted, this is part of why many people have considered moving. I myself have considered moving to Canada in the long run, although even this idea requires planning and often some retraining to fit what the economy up there needs.

As I'm sure you can guess, immigration isn't an easy thing, but Canada does seem like it's on a better long term track than America because of its better management of funds for reinvestment in its labor. Education systems there are typically better than ours both in terms of academics and technical trades.

Loans are available, although applying for them can be tricky. Since a lot of them are need-based, it is possible to make too much money to be eligible for many of them.

Granted, some are designed for workers who are looking to switch careers.

 

Well, every local market is different, but where I live, there are a lot of skilled trade jobs. My city seems to specialize in light manufacturing, and aviation industries have been moving here at a rapid pace.

So, skilled trades aren't as sparse as you would think, but it does often depend on the local economy. The South has seen a resurgence in manufacturing, whereas the Rust Belt is still declining.

One area that has more jobs than people right now is North Dakota. The oil and gas industry will supply our economy with lots of technical trades for years to come, even if it might require moving to far off places.

 

When I said that skilled trades have trouble filling jobs, I meant that the people employing skilled tradespeople have trouble filling those jobs.

Which is a generalization, of course, but it is more likely that someone with a demonstrated in demand skill is going to have an easier time finding a full time job than someone who graduated with a liberal arts degree.

 

Whoops, I read that wrong. That's what I get for skimming...

 

What OPEC country are you referring to might I ask? There are a few.

 

It isn't based on access to material resources. It's only based on income. So a bilionaire with no income is classed as "poor."

 

You mean like Notre Dame, Baylor, Columbia?

 

I am a democrat and I think about starting new businesses more than most republicans.
And I also have 1000x more respect for family owned businesses than any republican.

If you are a business and you don't have a (team) of lawyers that work for you (to lower your tax rates), I believe no one should be able to touch that business.

But if you are a large corporation with a team of lawyers, a team of accounts, bought politicians, and think tanks. That's not a business its a network of lawyers, accountants, and CEO's.

Republicans spit in face of small businesses, while they protect the rights of large corporations and CEO's.


Its so damn ironic Walmart destroyed Americas high paying small business jobs (and replaced them with min. wage, no health insurance jobs.)
Walmart destroyed (my) local sporting goods stores.

And today republicans stand up and protect the CEO's of Walmart, and say f. you to Walmarts workers.

My friends are small and family owned businesses that pay well over 30% tax rates.
A republicans friends are LARGE corporations that commonly have 0% tax rates. (and republicans actually don't care)
Sources (the second source blows my mind)
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2011/06/t...n_171_billion_in_profits_reap_624_billion.php
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2012/04/big_no-tax_corps_just_keep_on_dodging.php


Small business is getting screwed, and Americas workers are getting screwed, and republicans could care less.
Republicans just want to give lectures about the rights of CEO's.


I feel bad about the way I spoke to you here SPACECRICKET79, but when your not talking about CEO's "your the man."

 

Um why should a person be allowed to get cash at an ATM with a welfare card and spend it on strippers - there've been cases of this happening in New York.

 

My best friend was shot when he was 16, paralyzed from the waist down. Hes now 34, on ssi, getting his FAT 875 dollars a month from the government. Do tell how he can survive on that? What can a man who cant walk, and has to have dialysis 3 times a week do to better his situation do? You republicans sometimes see things way to black and white. There is no one type of person on welfare, its not all " lobster on my ebt card brah". We have some countrymen truely suffering, Would my buddy be better off in a foreign country? Who gives a (*)(*)(*)(*)! People claim this is the greatest nation on earth, lets not compare it to 3rd world (*)(*)(*)(*)holes.

I would MUCH rather pay for welfare to help our poor then pay to bomb some other countrys poor. Christians on this forum are not very christ like, I only bring this up as must republicans self identify as christian, even though they are far from it.

Now label me a leftist, so i can destory that statement.

 

You may be confusing poor with poverty. I only agree with you if once we abolish poverty through eminent domain.

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Because our elected representatives are not moral enough to bear true witness to our own laws and fix that moral Standard for the Union.

 

That's what the educationists tell you to think, but you should focus on motivating the students by giving natural rewards and punishments. Expecting them to be motivated to work hard by a reward or punishment that only happens 5 to 20 years later is a non-starter. The curricula should be made more relevant and concentrated in only a few areas, but that is a secondary issue. The students are still not going to be motivated. The way we develop athletes has more to do with the popularity they get from their classmates than what specific training regimen they get. Also, that the greatest achievers, equivalent to National Merit scholars such as myself, get expensive housing, expensive food, and expensive entertainment in college. They get the equivalent of $600 a week, plus free tuition, in addition to a lot of benefits from alumni boosters.abeautifulmind.proboards.com