The myth of the palestinians

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by jimmy rivers, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The story of the jews, who managed to remain a nationless tribe for a couple thousand years or so, is remarkable. Their accomplishments speak for themselves both good and bad.
     
  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Another point. The bible said the Jews would remain a tiny people in a tiny land.
    Someone pointed out that the Chinese weren't that more numerous than the ancient
    Jews, yet there's one and a half billion of them now. Not so with the Jews - still tiny
    in numbers. Yet both groups faced wars and famines.
    I read the 1948 and 1967 wars in Israel as miracles of deliverance. No-one planned
    many of the things which happened.
     
  3. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your Chinese analogy is incorrect. There were way way more "chinese", its just that "China" was a land of many kingdoms and war lords.

    I read neither war as miracles of deliverance. In 1948 you had some seriously pissed off and very battle hardened Jews who were absolutely committed to NEVER AGAIN in the same total commitment as the craziest damn Islamist of today. The ferocity and "smarts" and calculated risks the Israelis fought with and whipped everyone except the Jordanian army in Jerusalem. If god delivered Israel by uprooting families and confiscating land under gun point, then it seems he's okay with blatant crime against humanity in the name of fulfilling His word.

    In 67, Israel attacked first and caught Nasser with his pants around his ankles. For some strange reason the Syrians didn't go all out unit the 3 day of the war when Israel had already beaten Nasser and the battle of the Golan heights was as many major historic battles in history was a "missed it by that much" for Syria, as by Day 6 the Israelis were down to a few mobile tanks and were no more than a day away from losing the heights, which would have had devastating effects.
     
  4. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Quote - "For some strange reason the Syrians didn't..." And that's my point.
    Jordan's defense of Jerusalem being overruled by Egypt, the defection of the Iraqi pilot and his latest MIG, anti-aircraft gunners in Egypt stood down on the day of the attack, Jordan forced to fight and etc etc etc were things the Israelis didn't plan for.
    If I recall China had about 5 time the Jewish population in Jesus' day. Can't remember. Didn't mean to say they were equal - just similarly large populations.
    As for crimes against humanity. Most Arabs did desert their towns, contrary to the propaganda. It reminded the Jews of the days of Joshua when God said they will inhabit homes and farms they didn't build. I don't think the God of the bible believes in liberal notions of humanity, anymore than liberals believe in God (note what happened to the Jews after AD70)
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those are the fortunes and fogs of war.

    China had way more people, you are using the population all of current china then it has to be base on the total population within that geography at the same time as ancient Israel.

    I am fully cognizant of the fact that many arabs got outta dodge before the bullets started flying. OTOH, I am also fully aware that HUNDREDS of villages were "evacuated" under gun point. The Israelis were dicking around. These guys had just come out of the holocaust and this was an entirely existential fight. They committed all kinds of war crimes and crimes against humanity in winning AT ALL COSTS. They are a remarkable people, but if you think they aren't capable of being hard core nasty bastards, you have more to learn about their rich history.

    As for what you think the God of the Bible thinks, I am afraid you have just demonstrated why I reject all religion. I am an ignostic, formerly an agnostic atheist. As an ignostic there can be no mistake that I have a religion like theists always accuse atheists of having.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  6. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the Jews were about five million and China sixty million in Jesus' day.
    Today there are a lot more Chinese and about the same number of Jews.
    That's the point of an article I read.

    And, most Arabs were told to flee by their own people. That's history. And
    even today many Palestinians resent that. To the Jews the wholesale
    evacuation of the Palestinian population represented a serious diplomatic
    and long-term security problem for them. I am sure some Jews found the
    situation quite to their favor - not denying that.
     
  7. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But you won't acknowledge that they also expelled a couple hundred thousand arabs from their homes?

    They couldn't have cared less if it caused serious diplomatic issues, and to a large extent when it comes to security Israel still doesn't care all that much today. As for long term security that was the reason they expelled the arabs in the first place.
     
  8. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    The grand Pubah of Palestine provided 20,000 troops to Hitler.
    They lost the war.
     
  9. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It differed in place to place. There's a whole website dedicated to looking at each and
    every Arab village and what transpired there. I understand that one village overlooking
    the main Jerusalem road was quite strategic, and took the lives of many Israelis. They
    responded by killing many Arabs. Some of the mullahs and journalists spread it abroad
    there was mass rape going on - which the IDF denied. These mouthpieces for the Arabs
    said later they wanted to draw attention to the plight of Arabs, and thus help them - the
    opposite happened with thousands fleeing their homes after hearing the news.
    As it was - there were enough Arab massacres of Jews, not to mention the half million
    Jewish refugees from the Middle East - hardly ever mentioned.

    Edit Deir Yassin massacre
    "The killings were condemned by the leadership of the Haganah—the Jewish community's main
    paramilitary force—and by the area's two chief rabbis. The Jewish Agency for Israel sent Jordan's
    King Abdullah a letter of apology, which he rebuffed" Wikipedia

    Note - Israel ADMITTED to this killing.
    Israel APOLOGIZED for this killing
    It didn't do Israel any good that it happened.
    In other words, massacres were exceptions and not the rule
    for Israel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018

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