The New Deal: Crash Course US History #34

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Robert, Sep 26, 2021.

  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was born in the FDR depression. My dad escaped the Draft by having 5 kids almost in a short time. To show you, I was born in August of 1938 and my poor mom had her last child, a son, in June of 1946, Barefoot and pregnant was her fate. We moved all over CA.I was born in the far reaches of the San Joaquin Valley not far from Bakersfield, in Tulare to be exact. My Sister was born hundreds of miles north in Oakland, CA. Then came James, born in Bakersfield, CA, followed by Mary a sister but in Oakland, Ca. Dad moved us to hell up at Roseville Ca when Mike was born last in Sacramento. We were a roving bunch for sure.
    Dad was never drafted due to we kids.

    Dad also was a bum. He loved to drink. And womanize. I may have brothers or sisters lord knows where.

    Mom divorced him when I was in the 6th grade.

    But now you want to know about FDR.

    War may cause kids to remember a hell of a lot. We grew up daily hearing war war and more war. We had family fighting in war. I never found out if my uncles liked FDR or not.
    So this is a nifty lecture on FDR and the question is did he save us from a depression?

    The reply mimics my claims since I recall him as president. You may have heard of him. I recall him talking on my parents radio in the house.

    Oh and I was a super loyal Democrat until Carter screwed things up royally.

    Enjoy and discuss all you want.

     
  2. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    I say FDR came along at the right time because we needed a leader with lots of optimism. And he made the right decisions on how to prosecute the war. Our government borrowed heavily from it's citizens (war bonds) and spent the money firing up our factories producing war materials. That put everyone back to work and ended the Great Depression. Our standard of living increased during WW2 and we have never looked back.
     
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  3. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    The Depression didn't start under FDR
     
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  4. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well if BS cures a depression, your point about his talking makes sense.
    Tell me this then. In his short term as a war president, why was it only then that the economy improved? So we credit him due to his war skills? Which were his war skills?
    I fault him for the bulls eye he made of Pearl Harbor. His Naval experts were upset about putting so many ships there.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It ended due to war. Surely you do not call the stock market results a depression?
    Men who lost jobs had not owned stocks for the majority of the out of work.
     
  6. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Surely the stock market crash is one of many signs of a depression.

    HERBERT HOOVER - Unemployment was at an annual average of 3.2 percent when Hoover took office in 1929. Then the stock market crashed and many businesses failed. The jobless rate increased to 8.7 percent in 1930 and then to the high of 24.9 percent in 1933, when Hoover left office after being defeated for re-election.
     
  7. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hoover did not cause the Stock market to crash.
    Roosevelt unfortunately spent most of his 4 terms deeply mired in the depression.

    You connected an event of 1929 to the event of 1933, when FDR was president. Hoover was not president in 1933.

    If you want to learn why the depression took place, two books will solve that.
    1. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Great Contraction is economist Milton Friedman's term for the recessionary period from 1929 until 1933, i.e., the early years of the Great Depression.[1] The phrase was the title of a chapter in the landmark 1963 book A Monetary History of the United States by Friedman and his fellow monetarist Anna Schwartz. The chapter was later published as a stand-alone book titled The Great Contraction, 1929–1933 in 1965.[1] Both books are still in print from Princeton University Press and some editions include as an appendix a speech honoring Nobel-memorial economics prize laureate Friedman in which Fed Governor Ben Bernanke made this statement:

    Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression, you're right. We did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.[2][1]
    — Ben S. Bernanke

    Friedman and Schwartz argued that the Federal Reserve could have lessened the severity of the Depression, but failed to exercise its role of managing the monetary system and ameliorating banking panics under Fed chairmen Roy A. Young and Eugene Meyer.
    2.
    [​IMG]

    Both Books will clear up many things for those who care.
     
  8. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The stock market reflects confidence by investors.
    The enormous crash, men laid off, that was not due to the stock market, it was primarily due to a run on banks commencing in NY City at a Jewish run bank. Though there was no excuse for the run, still it took place. It was partly fueled by the hatred industry against Jews.
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually yes it did start under FDR.

    FDR was not the person to blame though. It was started as a protest against a Jew owned bank in NY City and much after the market crashed. The crash was not enough to put many out of work. It had an impact, but not the cause of the depression.
     
  10. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, it started during Hoovers first year in office and about 4 years before FDR took office, and ended few months after FDR won. Its ironic that the depression started as soon as Hoover(R) was sworn in and ended as soon as his first (and only) term ended.

    The Great Depression was from August 1929 – March 1933
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  11. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is totally wrong.
    And you also confuse the stock market with the economy at large.
    WW2 ended the Great Depression around 1942.

    Nobody can name an event caused by Hoover that could crash the stock market, much less the overall economy of the world.
     
  12. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I even reported accurately that not only Hoover, but FDR did not cause the Depression though FDR suffered it for his entire first 2 plus terms. WW2 saved the bacon for America as to workers getting jobs.
    FDR actually followed the Hitler model by making enormous war implements to grow the economy.

    During FDR we made a new ship per day. We were creating a new war plane in a matter of minutes under FDR.
    War is how FDR cured the depression.

    FDR however killed the new Auto market.
     
  13. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, I don't confuse it. Stock market crash lasted 2 months, not 4 years. 4 years after the crash unemployment was 25%, 5000 banks had gone under and hundreds of thousands of people in US were homeless. They lived in ghettos called "Hooverville", after the president (Hoover), who was blamed for the misery.

    What makes you say the depression started under FDR, when it obviously started way before he took office? Is it because Hoover was Republican?

    Hooverville (one of many)

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Recovery from the Great Depression
     
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  15. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    might i suggest the definitive book about the event, galbraith's "the great crash 1929" to clear up some of your obvious confusion.

    The Great Crash 1929: Galbraith, John Kenneth: 9780547248165: Amazon.com: Books

    the dust bowl was more than a symptom of the depression, the use of mechanized plows to turn the southern great plains to dust destroyed a large portion of the economy. wall st gambling played a part as well. the philosophical non intervention of the bi partisan conservatives contributed nothing.

    rhe depression was ended by scientific agriculture taught by federal government county agents at the local level, was nurtured by the regulations on wall st and the banks. many families survived only because of the wpa and ccc.

    yes, certainly the keynesian spending associated with wwiiis what finally broke the depression, but wwii was won because the people who fought had something back home to fight for.
     
  16. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    I have a mixed opinion on the New Deal. The Data clearly shows that the New Deal didn’t end the Depression. The New Deal certainly was a life line though. Jobs programs, and three hots and a cot definitely beat going hungry.
    Austrian Economist, and small government types can argue about the follies of the New Deal all they want, but when you’re standing in a soup kitchen line, facing no prospect but unemployment a person probably would put their political dogma on the back burner.
    Luckily my grandfather turned 89 this year. and god willing he sees many more birthdays. He grew up during the depression Before WW2 rolled around he was already in the cotton fields chopping weeds in Arizona with his older brothers just so the family could eat. He’s a very vocal Republican, sometimes to vocal about certain social issues, but he still has a framed picture of FDR hanging up in his house.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  17. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Simple to simply say t hat FDR used the model used by Hitler that created war time economics.
    Hoover had no role in the depression.
    FDR did not cause it. Banks in NY collapsed due to them being run by Jews. This is explained by Amity Shlaes.

    My uncles fighting WW2 did not do it for FDR. They were in the Army ahead of his war and stayed in due to being forced to.
     
  18. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    FDR neither caused nor cured the Depression.

    A test is to remove WW2 from the equation.

    From 1933 to 1942, though unemployment was very high, most still had jobs.
    So as mom used to tell me, a recession is when your neighbor has no job, a depression when you lose your job.
     
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  19. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was confused when I was a Democrat. And today I see Democrats are still confused.

    Bear in mind this fact. Most of America had jobs.

    The amount with no jobs was up to 25 percent. 75 percent had jobs.
    Hoover was not the cause.
    Wall St was not the cause.
    FDR spent a lot of his presidency presiding over the depression. WW2 cured it for all Americans. WW2 took the unemployment down to 2 percent. 98 percent had jobs thanks to WW2.
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You confirmed my own remarks. But with some errors.
    As you say the crash was not all that long lasting. And the crash was not the fault of Hoover nor of FDR.
    And when the errors were discovered, acts were taken to try to not let it happen later.
    So as you correctly declare, 25 percent had no jobs. But you ignored who had jobs.
    75 percent of workers had jobs.
    I mentioned why the run on Banks happened. I don't want to keep repeating myself. This was documented by Amity Shlaes. She is an economist.

    If you recall, the economy for both Bush and later Trump went over a cliff. Bush tried to prevent it. Trump did not realize America was about to suffer Covid 19 due to the Chinese lying to him.
    Democrats brag today that Biden is getting more working, But he is at the same time losing more lives due to CV19 daily than Trump lost.
    Yes, Democrats came up with names like Hooverville. They lied then as they lie today.

    Hoover was a brilliant Engineer but I do not claim he was a great economist. FDR was not an economist either. He was plowing his field in the dark which is why his depression was deep and very long lasting. His lasted a full decade.
     
  21. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Your course does crash. Revisionist Republicans, and now, tRumpublicans have long tried to smear The New Deal as failure because it is fundamental to trickle down economics that ONLY free market capitalism successfully provides for peoples needs. They have had a free rein over the last 40 years to prove that theory and have failed abysmally. Top down economics has made a very few people wealthy in America, but has impoverished millions and for the few of us able to hold on to "Middle Class" it has gotten more and more difficult.

    Conservatives latch onto the 1938 recession as proof that The New Deal Failed, which is myopic at best and in reality a damn lie.

    [​IMG]

    Anyone can see that in spite of the 1938 setback, The New Deal years were years of steady economic growth.

    But, beyond creating jobs for American workers, The New Deal invested in America like never before. It's true that after War 2, America prospered because it was practically the only nation on earth not devastated by war. But it's also true that the New Deal investment in ourselves positioned U.S. to take full advantage of that advantageous economic position. AND, New Deal philosophy of a strong social underpinning kept the American workforce healthy and capable of competing with any other nation on earth. Laws and programs protected our industry and workers and provided good jobs with benefits and made U.S. the manufacturing wonder of the world.

    It was Reaganomics that was the beginning of the end of that prosperity. Not to ignore the economic problems of the late 70's, it was Friedman's Chicago School economics that drove nails in the coffin of NEW DEAL, Keynesian economics. Reaganomics created exponential debt growth, which made him look like a wizard but set the stage for the crushing unmanageable debt we have today. And he didn't invest in America he invested in the Military Industrial Complex that contributes nothing back to American Society but is an ever growing drain on it and an ever growing debt creator.

    Republican/tRumpublican propaganda that the New Deal failed is just HOGWASH created to validate the false notion that their voodoo economics will benefit America and Americans. We have the last 40 years of American decline that proves that false.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  22. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Due to the rate of unemployment being a mild 25 percent given a severe depression could have killed the job market or had half of the population out of work, and this does not mitigate the 25 percent out of a job, all it means is the 75 percent working had jobs.

    The new deal was watered way down by the court.
    The fact I make and it is positively true is the war killed the depression.
    Once the war was entered, intentionally by FDR, the unemployment rate fell to 2 percent.
    War and not the new deal cured the depression.

    It is not that the New deal failed. It was just weak medicine.

    The war was powerful medicine. That is the point to be learned by democrats.
     
  23. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    You're really hard to follow. Are you making an argument or arguing with yourself?

    Revisionist tRumpublicans must dismiss New Deal accomplishments otherwise top down economics doesn't work. Everything they've stood for, for the last 50 years is based on the trickle down lie.

    Democrats know that War 2 was a great economic boon to U.S.; don't be silly. What tRumpublicans want to obfuscate is the GREAT HELP the New Deal was to American life as it was implemented AND for the next two generations.
     

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