The Obama Legacy

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by drluggit, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Prior to the inauguration of President Trump, much to do was made by many of the liberal news media outlets concerning the legacy that would be attributed to outgoing President Obama.

    Glowing, fawning commentary about the out going president's achievements from Health care, to diplomacy.

    Over the last couple of days, we learned a much darker side of the Obama Legacy. A legacy that is now fraught with unforeseen horrors. Chemical weapons in Syria, delegitimizing the narrative ms Rice provided about the success of having removed those weapons. Undercutting the glowing reviews of mr Kerry et al, and demonstrating the vacuous nature of the national security team..

    Today, an even more horrifying revelation. Slavery in Libya. W African migrants being sold in the public square. Makes toppling Quadafi seems like such a good decision today, right?

    But is will be an enduring legacy of mr Obama. Slavery, reintroduced through the carelessness of his policy and war of opportunity in Libya.
     
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  2. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/libya-public-slave-auctions-un-migration

    “The latest reports of ‘slave markets’ for migrants can be added to a long list of outrages [in Libya],” said Mohammed Abdiker, IOM’s head of operation and emergencies. “The situation is dire. The more IOM engages inside Libya, the more we learn that it is a vale of tears for all too many migrants.”

    The north African nation is a major exit point for refugees from Africa
    trying to take boats to Europe. But since the overthrow of autocratic leader Muammar Gaddafi, the vast, sparsely populated country has slid into violent chaos and migrants with little cash and usually no papers are particularly vulnerable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  3. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    In regards to Syria, Obama's policy led to the controlled destruction of 1,300 tons of a declared chemical weapons stockpile without a military strike. There was always a chance that Syria would not declare all of its chemical weapons, that it might reboot a chemical weapons program, or that it would purchase new chemical weapons. Perhaps Congressional approval (which Obama sought) would have resulted in a different outcome or greater pressure on Russia from all political parties in the U.S.

    In regards to Libya, there will always be unforeseen consequences to any geopolitical decision. Supporting Muammar Gaddafi was not and is not a preferred outcome given the humanitarian crisis that was occurring at that time, even with the knowledge that removing him would have led to the current slavery situation.

    These unforeseen consequences become the problem of the next administration to handle, so do you support Trump doing something in Libya?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
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  4. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Interesting standard. We only worried about "declared"? And this is sufficient? Ben Rhodes argued this on NPR this morning. He suggested that the success of removing these vastly overshadowed the detail that Assad was still using chemical, and recently nerve agents against his people.

    On Libya. "Unforseen".. Sure. So the left pilloried Bush for his, time to roast the big O for his.
     
  5. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    It is not sufficient, but it is a mitigating factor. Another mitigating factor is the fact that Obama sought Congressional approval for further intervention and this was refused. Another mitigating factor is the sheer complexity of the Civil War in Syria and the lack of a concentrated political support from both parties against further action regarding Russia's support for the Assad regime.

    And sure, you're free to criticize Obama for the unforeseen result of his decision because "librulz did it to Bush," if you like. But I again ask you to offer an opinion on what you think Trump should do now to clean up the mess.
     
  6. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Simply put, a mitigating factor becomes insufficient when it demonstrably doesn't preclude the behavior or the ability to subject the population to the use of them.

    How to clean up Libya is now a political question. Absent the amoral and brutal dictator that kept the fragile peace, the chaos brought by Obama policy is liberalizing those there to commit these little atrocities. Slavery, brought by the first US AA president. How ironic. And how astounding. Perhaps the nice folks building his library can immortalize his contribution to the global slave trade.
     
  7. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a truly pathetic connect the dots in a transparent attempt to do nothing more than smear the last guy cause the new guy is such a walking talking ill disciplined intellectually stunted bully whose administration started life under criminal investigation.

    And you want to talk about LEGACY? Trump's been in for 70 odd days and his legacy is already of historic proportions for all the wrong reasons.

    no worries tho, I'm sure he''ll be able to recover from a 35% approval rating outta the gate.
     
  8. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    o Economy that was tanking at a -9% rate and shedding 700,000+ jobs a month turned around
    o a record 83 straight months of private sector employment growth.
    o Initial unemployment claims below 300,000 for a 101 straight weeks, the longest streak since 1970
    o 150% increase in the stock markets since taking office
    o More than halved the deficit in 4 years.
    o Initial unemployment claims drop to lowest level since 1973
    o Got Osama bin Laden.
    o Saved 2-3 million jobs with stimulus package
    o First decrease in spending in a year in decades - 3 times.
    o Stock markets up 200% since bottom of the recession in 2009
    o 16 million additional private sector jobs created since Jan 2010
    o Oil production increasing for the first time in decades.
    o Initial unemployment claims drop to 43 year low.
    o Ousted Muamar Kadaffi at 1/1000 the cost of the Iraq war
    o Deficit reduced by a then record $212 billion, down 16%, in 2012.
    o Deficit reduced by a new record $408 billion, down 37%, in 2013
    o Expanded overtime regulations for working Americans
    o Record corporate profits
    o Opened relations with Cuba
    o Passed health care reform that is providing coverage to tens of millions of Americans
    o 6 straight years of GDP growth
    o Unemployment rate dropped from 10% to 4.8%
    o U.S. becomes world's top petroleum and energy producer
    o Passed financial regulation reform to prevent another housing bubble fiasco.
    o Recovered all jobs lost in the worst recession in 80 years
    o Lowest rate of spending increases of any president in modern history
    o 2015 median income increase strongest on record.
    o Average initial jobless claims drops to levels last seen when Nixon was president.
    o US domestic oil use decreased
    o Net creation of millions of people employed despite inheriting a economy losing 700,000+ jobs a month
    o Student loan reform passed making college loans available at reasonable rates.
    o Gas prices drop to $2.00/gallon

    If Obama were a white Republican conservatives would be hailing him as a savior.
     
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  9. Homer J Thompson

    Homer J Thompson Banned

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    1. Only a liberal could consider Obozo a savior. Let's try reality...

    • IRS targets Obama’s enemies

    • Benghazi

    • Spying on the AP

    • The ATF “Fast and Furious” scheme

    • Sebelius demands payment

    • The Pigford Agriculture Department Scandal

    • The General Services Administration Las Vegas Spending Spree.

    • Veterans Affairs in Disney World and neglecting vets

    • Solyndra

    • New Black Panthers Voter Intimidation

    • The hacking of Sharyl Attkisson’s computer

    • Obama’s LIES about the Affordable Care Act

    • “I’ll Pass My Own Laws”

    • NSA Spying on American People
    Foreign Policy

    • Lack of solidarity with Israel

    • Disaster with the Arab Spring

    • Crimea

    • Leaving Iraq too soon and letting ISIS take over

    • Handling of Syrian Red Line

    • Calling ISIS “JV”

    • Failing to Recognize ISIS as a Radical (or Devout) Muslim Movement

    • Returning the bust of Churchill to the Brits

    • Lack of Confidence by NATO nations

    • Signing a Disastrous Nuclear Deal with the Mullahs of Ira

    • Paid $5 Billion & Released 5 Taliban Prisoners For Deserter Bergdahl

    • Waging war by attacking Libya without Congressional approval

    • Allowed the building of Chinese bases in the South China Sea and off the coast of Somalia at the entrance to the gulf of Aden

    • Paying ransom to Iranian for hostages- and using foreign currency in unmarked plane

    • Lying about paying ransom (which media ignored!)

    • Pays tribute to Japanese at Hiroshima on US Memorial Day

    • Obama trashed America 18 times on Asian Tour

    • Pushing the U.N. resolution condemning Israel for legally building houses in Jewish neighborhoods

    • Released $221 million to the Palestinian Authority in last few hours



      Domestic Policy

    • Failure to secure the Border

    • Illegals bringing guns, drug and diseases through the southern border

    • Bowe Bergdahl swap

    • Passing on the keystone pipeline

    • 9 Trillion dollars more in debt

    • Vast expansion of government

    • Racial Division at all-time high

    • 8.Inviting Bomb Boy Ahmed to White House

    • Disrespect for Cops

    • Failed economic stimulus plan

    • Constant disregard for the Constitution and tyrannical rule

    • China overtook America as world’s largest economy

    • Double Downgrade

    • Housing policies failed to stop foreclosures

    • Price of healthcare has drastically risen for those purchasing it

    • Education policies failed to curb college costs

    • Highest percentage of Americans on Food Stamps and Medicaid

    • Record 92,898,000 Americans over 16 years not working

    • Lowest Labor Force participation rate of 62.7%

    • Denying the notion of American Exceptionalism

    • Securing the Olympics for Chicago in 2016

    • Naming numerous Communists/Socialists/Progressives to Czar Positions

    • Mismanagement and cover up of Terrorist shootings in San Bernardino, California

    • Mismanagement of Gulf Oil Spill

    • Disastrous Vetting Process of “Immigrants” from Muslim Nations

    • Refusing to Listen to CIA/FBI that there is no way to properly vet certain immigrants from Muslim nations

    • Fort Hood Shooting

    • Colorado EPA Disaster

    • Veto of 911 Crime Bill- which was overturned

    • Worst economic recovery since the depression with anemic GDP numbers

    • Over 94 million Americans out of the workforce

    • Obama commutes sentence on Chelsea Manning
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  10. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I see you updated your boiler plate declarations which were long ago debunked, my unedited version will still suffice.

    o Economy that was tanking at a -9% rate and shedding 700,000+ jobs a month turned around

    Prove Obama turned it around. The job loss rate bottomed out and started to quickly recover the month he moved over to the White House before any stimulus.

    o 52 straight months of private sector employment growth.

    Bush had 52 straight months of full employment as opposed to 52 months of Obama's shoddy employment record with it's horrible unemployment

    o 110% increase in the stock markets since taking office

    Yes enriching the top 1% increasing the wealth gap by flooding the markets with money

    o Halved the deficit in 4 years.

    After he and his fellow Democrats increased it almost 5 fold in two and keeping it there for 4, ROFLMAO you are actually trying to credit him with something here? BTW I thought you and he opposed the sequestration that is responsible for the decline. Can you point to me the Obama budgets that were passed that did this halving?

    o Got Osama bin Laden.

    What did he do to "get him"? He was there or something? He came up with the plan? I believe it was a particular female CIA agent and group of Navy SEALS who got him.

    o Saved 2-3 million jobs with stimulus package

    Pure conjecture

    o First decrease in spending in a year in decades - 3 times.

    After he and his fellow Democrats raised it 29% in just two years. Which Obama budgets were passed that cut spending. Prove he supported the sequestration that cut the spending.

    o Over 9.6 million additional private sector jobs created since Jan 2010

    In spite of him and still horrible employment numbers

    o Oil production increasing for the first time in decades.

    In spite of him and because of the private sector on private lands. What specifically are you attributing to Obama for this increase?

    o Ousted Muamar Kadaffi at 1/1000 the cost of the Iraq war

    The Libyians and Russians ousted him as Obama watched

    o Deficit reduced by a then record $207 billion, down 16%, in 2012.
    o Deficit reduced by a new record $420 billion, down 37%, in 2013

    After he and his fellow Dems raised from $161B to $1,400B, almost 900% and kept it over $1,000B for four years. What exactly are you bragging about here. Still higher than the WORST Bush/Rep deficit. And again prove he supported the measures that brought it about and that YOU supported them.

    o Record corporate profits

    And you attribute this to Obama because...........?

    o Passed health care reform that will provide coverage to tens of millions of Americans

    Has not come close to 10 million who did not have coverage, try about 1.8 million at the cost of 9 million losing theirs. This is good why?

    o 4 straight years of GDP growth

    That is no where near where it should be in an economic recovery and -2.9% first quarter. It GDP increased .0000000000001% your statement would be true wouldn't it? And the economy would be horrible at that rate wouldn't it. Try some context next time.

    o Unemployment rate dropped from 10% to 6.1%

    Because of people giving jup looking and going on government subsistence, WOW what a jobs program.

    o U.S. becomes world's top petroleum and energy producer

    See above

    o Passed financial regulation reform to prevent another housing bubble fiasco.

    That he and his fellow Dems caused and have yet to rectify and making the big banks to big to fail even bigger even more too big to fail. But then I thought Dodd/Franks passed that, what did Obama do?

    o Diplomatically coerced Syria to give up WMD without war or loss of single American life

    Try Putin and the Russians and "Report: Despite clearing inspection process, Syria still has WMD"
    http://www.worldtribune.com/2014/06/30/report-unlikely-syria-gave-chemical-weapons-stockpile/

    "Assad’s Secret WMD"
    http://news.yahoo.com/assad-secret-...lYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDQxOF8x

    o Recovered all jobs lost in the worst recession in 80 years

    And what Obama policy did that and taking 6 years to do that is a success how?

    o Lowest rate of spending increases of any president in modern history

    He and his fellow Democrats increased it at the highest rate in modern history and in particular his FY2009 spending increase and then kept it there for the next 4 years.

    o On-budget deficit has decreased every full fiscal year he's been in office.

    Which of his budgets that were passed did this? And you falsely do not include his FY2009 increase.

    o US domestic oil use decreasing

    Economic turndowns and pitiful recoveries tend to do that.

    o Net creation of millions of people employed despite inheriting a economy losing 700,000+ jobs a month.

    See above
     
  12. Homer J Thompson

    Homer J Thompson Banned

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  13. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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  14. Homer J Thompson

    Homer J Thompson Banned

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  15. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What about it?
     
  16. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not one fact refuted. Thanks for supporting my post.
     
  17. Xtremenerd

    Xtremenerd Well-Known Member

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    He is going to have a legacy? huh....that's news to me.
     
  18. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only Legacy I see, really has little to do with the man Obama, but with Partisanism in general, & political divisiveness.

    Still growing stronger by the News Cycle.
     
  19. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Everyone knows that Historians are Liberals!
     
  20. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    • That was the worst decision ever made in American political history. We are seeing immediate consequences now but it will take at least a generation before this is straightened out and with the possibility of hundreds of thousands of more lives lost added to those thousands lost already.
    We gave up in Iraq after it was 'sovereign and stable' and ISIS was declared by Obama to be a "JV Team". Now we know the 'JV Team' was us.

    Had the military remained in Iraq, as their leaders wanted, there is no reason why the stability in Iraq in 2011 would not have continued and the problems we see now in Syria and Libya would likely have been controlled. Certainly the stability would have continued in Iraq.

    There will surely be more revelations made about Barack Obama and his Administration in the years to come and one of the domestic issues raised will be, "Where did all those trillions go?"​
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  21. SillyAmerican

    SillyAmerican Well-Known Member

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    Unforeseen consequences? Unforeseen consequences? Maybe if our Nobel laureate had bothered to listen to the people who were issuing their warnings that our enemies -- yes, the Syrians and Iranians -- are NOT to be trusted, and are to be handled with great care. But no, we'll make grandiose pronouncements about how we've got them doing exactly what we want them to do, thank you very much. Complete BS. And now it's a problem for the next administration. Typical nonsense.

    As opposed to what? A guy who enjoys delivering flowery speeches and drawing red lines in the sand? Had Obama launched missiles in response to Assad's gassing civilians (including children), I would have supported the action. Would you have? If no, why not? If yes, then why do you not support President Trump doing the same? (Yes, we know, in your view, Trump can do no right and Obama can do no wrong. We get it. Sad, but there it is...).
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
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  22. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that I was talking about Libya in that portion, right?

    As for not trusting Syria and Iran, I think the fact that Iran is now subject to the most intrusive nuclear inspection regime in the world is pretty strong evidence that Obama did not merely trust Iran. The same inspection regime may have done well in Syria, but for the fact that they are apples and oranges.

    That red line in the sand led to the controlled destruction of 1300 metric tons of chemical weapons without a single military strike. And Obama sought the authorization to launch a military strike against Syria. That authorization was not granted by Congress. Are you very sure that you supported Obama's request for authorization?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  23. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But the UN will continually bash what it sees as human rights violations in the United States.
     
  24. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obama went to congress to get authorization as the republicans were SCREAMING he had to do, and then, when he did, the republicans refused to vote on the AUMF.

    Silly american forgetting such a recent thing.

    I happen to support the attack, just think it should have been under congressional approval. this wasn't an attack on isis it was a unilateral military attack on the "internationally recognized" syrian regime by the president. What was that about not wanting to be the world's policeman - oh yeah merely another "its not what he said its what he really meant".
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  25. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Americans have to be 'The World's Policeman" but they need more deputies. Too many democracies, especially in Europe, sit on the sidelines doing nothing, hoping the situation will somehow change on its own.

    The President did not need Congressional approval for what what happened in Syria and had he sought their approval there would have been public leaks and the chemicals removed. He and his staff handled it beautifully. It's great to have adult back in charge..
     

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