The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

If you don't believe in True or False, you can't very well judge Good or Evil. From where would you get your standards?

 

Certainly, it is the heart.

GIA makes the mistake of denying the spiritual.

You make the mistake of thinking they can be separated.

But you are certainly a better Gnostic than GIA.

 

The self is a part of the body. Your self is in your brain/mind/consciousness. No?

You are referring to this, --- For where the mind is, there is the treasure.

What is this bible quote saying if not just that. Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Yes. In the sense that out thoughts, if able to go outside of ourselves, as I know they can, are made up of sub-atomic particles and in a sense, with the right equipment, can be seen. That is why I, unlike you possibly, can see reality without any need of the supernatural that you seem to think is out there somewhere.

What would that make you? An un-natural man?

You seem eager to throw away your humanity while all the sages try to teach us to be the best and most loving humans we can be. Our human form is all we have that can impress by words, works and deeds, what the Jesus mind is.

That is why Jesus said that we would know his people by their actions.

That is also why the Cathars, my template for my Gnostic Christianity, used the term Parfait, perfected one, to show the epitome of what being human was all about.



If you are a true esoteric ecumenist like myself, it is foolish for you to try to infuse me with your nomenclature when we see things about the same way. That is not what esoteric ecumenists do.

Regards
DL

 

The sort shown in the links in the O.P.

Free thinking, no supernatural belies ad esoteric ecumenists and naturalists, basically.

Somewhat like Buddhists and Karaite Jews as we all put God below us where he belongs, given that we all invent our Gods.

Viewing those links will give you some of our other attributes.

Regards
DL

 

Oh I believe in true or false and can judge good from evil, no problem.

We are judging ideologies that are man made and it is true that they are man made and false to say they are not. That is a given and that is why I asked for a different judgement as to which ideology was good or evil or which was the better of the two.

Your a bright guy and I would have thought you would have dithered that out on your own.

Regards
DL

 

An exceptionally boring sort, I find.

But there are worse things than being boring.

 

But you are judging ideologies which are man-made with other ideologies that are man made. It is futile.

Your ideology may be a fine lever, but, like Archimedes, you have no place to stand.

 

Eh. I do not deny the spiritual. You will see in my post above that I point to the heart the same way you just did.

And you will note, at least the way I have been reading our friend, that it is he who is trying to do more separating than I am.

My post above shows this.

That or my communication skills have gone all to hell.

Regards
DL

 

Or I have been lazy. I will reconsider.

 

War is the epitome of drama.

If that drama is what you crave, join one of the idol worshiping religions like Christianity and Islam and start supporting Inquisition and Jihads against women and gays. Religions longest running victims.

As a Gnostic Christian, I war with my mouth against the vile mainstream religions.

You might give that a try if you want drama. It is also a good study in psychology and the dithering out of why sane and good people follow a genocidal son murdering God while saying that the prick is good.

Regards
DL

 

Thanks.

I do recognize that the language and terms uses is not always the easiest to grasp even when people are close in thinking but still arguing terms the way our friend and I have been doing.

Regards
DL

 

Hmm.

So if your wife asked you to pick out the best fairy tales from a bunch in your library, and asked you which of the selection showed the better ideology, you would not be able to do so.

I guess that you do not vote either as that would mean judging the liberal ideology and the conservative ideology to see which you preferred.

Regards
DL

 

You're right, -it's pointless.

 

Of course I can. But I believe in a revealed religion. I don't see how you can unless you credit your personal prejudices as absolute truth, somehow.

 

The revealed religions are idol worshipers who, as shown in the O.P. have no problem growing their religions by Inquisitions and Jihads and if your moral sense tell you that that is superior to a peaceful ideology that weeks knowledge and wisdom, then you show how your religion has corrupted your moral sense.

That is all that can be said when you chose such a vile war mongering ideology over a peaceful one.

Regards
DL

 

If you do not allow enough flexibility in the terms you use, you are correct.

Regards
DL

 

Should I consider that a dismissal?

 

Spirit is not "flexible".

 

That is up to you.

You can either admit that I am correct as to your moral fibre or justify it and refute my view.

I have been here before with theists and they usually cannot justify or refute and just run away.

In most moral discussions, when God as authority and mental shield is ignored, an end game and consensus can be found but most attempts that I have had with theists ends with, God can do what he likes to us, even something immoral, because he created us and own us.

The double moral standard is common fare in Christians.

If you can be more honest and do not have to hide behind such a vile faith based shield and double moral standard, I am here for good debates.

If you can take the heat, we can even start a new O.P. so that we might share it with others to keep each other honest. Your choice.

Regards
DL

 

Perhaps, but I was not talking to your spirit but to your mind that feeds it.

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John was talking to human ears and minds which, if any leeway in language is required, do the translating.

Regards
DL

 

I can't especially boast of my moral fiber. That's why I look outside myself.

What is mental shield?

Which double moral standard is that?

First, I'd have to know what you are talking about.

And, not to put too fine a point on it, I'd have to have some reason to believe that your moral fiber or moral shield or moral double standard is as elevated as you imply.

It is easy to criticize others, much more difficult to actually be a good person. And I've known many Christians who are also admirable persons. But perhaps my moral fiber is too corrupt to judge.

 

That is good, but not if you look to a vile genocidal son murdering God for them.
That is like an S S soldier looking to Hitler for moral guidance.

Then again, I learned a fair bit of morality from your bible but you have to read it the way Gnostic Christians read it. That is expressed by this quote.

“Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.”
William Blake.

Things like this from above. --- God can do what he likes to us, even something immoral, because he created us and own us because he created us and owns us.

Here is a real life example.

What ever moral tenet of issue that, as you said above, you cannot boast about would be good in a direct way, but I was thinking more of things like genocide or substitutionary atonement or the no-divorce for women policy that Jesus taught.

We could decide on a list before or in an O.P. that is created to discus moral tenets. Christian and Muslim homophobia and misogyny are good topics as well.

I have no double moral standard or supernatural shield or God to hide behind and if you recognize the double standard that Christians have in that link, then you would see me as at least that more morally astute than Christians in that links audience.

Sure, but other are not here, there is just you and I, and hopefully the issues is what we would concentrate on.

Regards
DL

 

Nice quote. But how do you know how I read the Bible? How do you read the Bible? Say, for instance, the Book of Job?

Substitutionary atonement is not taught in the Bible or in my Church. It is a Protestant innovation which springs from a poor translation of one of St. Paul's epistles. I tend towards the Christus Victor interpretation, but there is no dogma on this issue.

I understand the point of the video, but I don't see why I should consider you morally astute. Much less do I find it proof that you are actually a moral person. Now, not being especially moral myself, I am hardly in a position to criticize you.

What I am asking is what makes you think you are in a position to criticize me?

Being moral is not a goal of the Christian life. The goal of the Christian Life is the acquisition of the Holy Spirit. Morality is just a tool.

“Fasting, prayer, alms, and every other good Christian deed is good in itself, but the purpose of the Christian life consists not only in the fulfillment of one or another of them. The true purpose of our Christian life is the acquisition of the Holy Spirit of God. But fasting, prayer, alms and every good deed done for the sake of Christ is a means to the attainment of the Holy Spirit. Note that only good deeds done for the sake of Christ bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Everything else that is not done for the sake of Christ, even if it is good, does not bring us a reward in the life to come, not does it bring the grace of God in this life. This is why our Lord Jesus Christ said, ‘Whoever gathereth not with me scattereth’ (Matt. 12:30).

 

I do not know how you read the bible, but not being a Gnostic and saying you believe in your God in a literal way, an assumption of literal reading is not too far out there.

It happens that I has an O.P that I posted elsewhere on this question as well as another. Let me answer with that. It will same my two little typing fingers. You might note that I like to have a little fun too.

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Why is Satan depicted as female and able to move God to sin?

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”

Women, and rightly so, are depicted as the epitome of evil and Satan.

After all, men’s desire for women is the root of all evil. This aside as there is no sexual connotation in Job.

In Job, God admits to being moved by Satan to do evil and is thus admitting to be a sinner. God sets the limits of the harm that Satan will do to Job. Satan becomes the hit-woman for God who becomes the crime boss.

God, after all the harm his sinning created, and when Job did not lose faith in him, rewards Job as his penance for the sin of harming Job without a just cause. God pays for his sins.

Did God sin in Job?

Before you reply, please listen to these two links on Job.

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4316ace5007f8e043a2221d3cbfec1c59c342e48b7772c0a3e3db724c50b363c.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yhcm76Jfps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgZqnsytJI

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You have not accepted the apostles creed or fly the cross on your church?

Which denomination or church are you in?

Let's get this B.S and possibly not called for self-abasement garbage out of the way then. You have this O.P. to judge by as well as the story of Job.

I raised my hand to seeing God as evil for allowing evil just to win a bet with Satan. Did you?

Given the homophobia and misogyny in Christianity, one can easily agree with you.

The fact that I can judge that discrimination without a just cause is evil should answer your question as to why I think I am a better judge of good moral action than anyone who stays in homophobic and misogynous religions.

If that is not good enough for you then do as all other Christians tend to do at this juncture. Bow out, or start discussing morals of specific issues.

Regards
DL

 

Yes, he was speaking to human minds and ears and saying "abandon the mind and ears (flesh)". Of course the path by which mystics reach disciples is via words, largely. But I can tell you from experience that you can sit and listen to a Master deliver a talk on awakening and when it's over, though you can feel the joy and the inspiration and expectancy, and though you may know a bit more about how to seek and practice, you will find yourself completely unable to say the things the Master said. This is what is meant by "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" because "ye are dead, and your life is hid with (in) Christ".