The Player Hell

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by ibshambat, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    When I was on an internet group called alt.romance, there were young men there who called themselves “nice guys.” These people would befriend and counsel young ladies, only to watch them pass over them in relationships and go with men whom they saw as being “jerks.” I watched these young men become more and more aggressively misogynistic as they went from “women only go with jerks” to “women make irresponsible choices in relationships” to “women are stupid and evil” to “women should be played, controlled and abused.”

    Now leaving the issue of whether or not they were actually nice – their behavior obviously shows to the contrary – there is something here with much greater implications. While being a player can work in getting casual sex, in long-term relationships it is a complete disaster.

    The relationship starts with a lie. What can a lie not handle? Either truth or any other competing fallacy. The process of defending a relationship that starts with a lie involves weaving an ever-more-elaborate, an ever-more-oppressive, and an ever-more-transparently-ridiculous web of deceit. This creates a hell for everyone involved, including the man who does this. Either the woman or the children – or both – eventually learn to see through the deception; and one winds up either with a hateful wife or with rebellious kids.

    At this point the man responsible for the con job starts using moral or religious arguments. He has the right to neither; he is a con man. He had no ethical considerations in going for the woman; he went for her because she was hot. He deceived her and built a relationship based on deception. Neither of these are the actions of an ethical man.

    So when we see young men being encouraged to play women, what we are seeing is encouragement of a highly unethical behavior – behavior that ends up being totally self-defeating. The man does not love the woman; he has played the woman. And that is a completely rotten foundation for a relationship and an even worse foundation for family life.

    Now there have been any number of women in feminist movement who have taken the experience of their parents and used it to claim that love is a patriarchial racket. Love is not a patriarchial racket; playing is. Love – even love at first sight – worked for many women in the World War II generation; and their daughters who likewise believed in love did not believe anything irrational or unrealistic. Their problem has been that they kept mistaking false fronts of salesmen for goodness of character. They were being played, and women who have been played wind up in a marital hell – for the reasons stated above.

    Playing and misogyny therefore work very well together. The player uses misogynistic attitudes to justify himself in playing women; and when the woman starts hating him or tries to leave him he uses that conduct to claim that women are bad. I have seen this done extensively in player cultures; and I seek to correct this state of affairs.

    Particularly, I want to see women who are vulnerable to this behavior to see through it.

    I was not born yesterday, and I know that women are just as capable as men of dishonest and malicious behavior. I seek to empower both the men and the women who are vulnerable to such behavior, whether it be done by women or by men. Neither men nor women are either evil or good; both are capable of both. That is because people have the capacity of choice. And anything that has the capacity of choice regardless of gender is capable of both right choices and wrong choices.

    Love is not the same thing as playing, and it is wrong that women's experience of falling for fronts of players be used to impugn love. Similarly it is wrong that the behavior of women fleeing such things be used to foster misogyny. If you have pulled a con job, be ready that the next person see through the con job; and there is nothing in this that justifies slanders against women as such.

    So that while playing can work for a one-night stand, it is a completely inadequate basis for a long-term relationship. That especially is the case if there are children involved. They will see you and they will judge you even if your wife does not.

    What is a valid basis for a relationship? There are any number of them. Even if you have no use for romantic love, you can still found viable situations based on such things as similarities of values and interests. Even such relationships can turn sour; but they are less likely to explode in hatred and violence. Go for a woman whom you actually value and create something better than an inevitable player hell.
     
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  2. Yant0s

    Yant0s Active Member

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    A player is not bad its simply a guy who understands women and chooses from an abundance of women to have casual relationships with. They usually become bored of it after a number of years and when they do they usually have a huge pool of women to pick from and choose the woman they are most connected too.

    Players are confident, know what they want, women are attracted to them because of all there positive traits that they posses, they have their **** together.

    When done with casual relationships and truly ready to settle down they do so with ease. They tend to excel in longterm relationships but only when they are ready too.

    A lot of women get heart broken not being able to snag him along the way but its his choice to be free until he is ready.


    To be honest you're right about the nice guys, they pretty much suck. They are usually bad with women and believe they are entitled to a loving relationship.

    It starts off innocent and they just are looking for love like everyone else. They constantly get rejected, it makes them lose self essteem and confidence and thet get even worst with women.

    They start being the "friend" hiding under a cloak and trying to secretly convince a women to love him from a non threating position. Of course this doesn't work, she chooses a real man over this pathetic looser.

    Of course he cannot be to blame so he blames and hates women. Desperate, self loathing, cunning, deceitful, childish, hateful are the words i would use to describe the "nice guy".

    Its sad really, he is a victim, the world didn't recognise his potential and as a result he become a chewed up mess of a man. One day he will find a women out of pure desperation that will take him in but he still bares the scares. He will be a broken man sometimes in a broken relationship.

    These are at to ends of a spectrum but as you used both examples in your post this is my take on them both. To me it seemed you condemed the player but what had he done, he's just a guy with his **** together keeping his options open.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  3. Yant0s

    Yant0s Active Member

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    I really liked all your post by the way its a issue i find very interesting.

    "Particularly, I want to see women who are vulnerable to this behavior to see through it."

    I dont believe its somthing that can be solved by thinking as its human nature.

    Look at the animal kingdom , its structured that only the strongest males spread their seed amongst the females. The females will not allow themselves to pass on weak males genes. As a result only a select few males get to breed with all the females.

    Maybe its still hardwired into our brains? Old fasion morals was maybe a way to counteract this?

    No sex before marriage, casual sex considered bad by society e.t.c.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  4. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I think a major part of this you are overlooking is that these men have to become jaded, they have failed at relationships.

    What I think this again boils down to from the male perspective is the way we have failed young men in training them for proper relationships. I've talked to plenty of women who have gone on dates with guys but if the bottom roses that did they kill em with kindness thing and they always say something very similar about that kind of guy. He's annoying or he's creepy. I've talked to a lot of young men who are struggling with this and I keep telling them to change their approach and it's like I'm telling them to sprout six pairs of legs and run up a wall.

    Now I'm sure there are a myriad of issues that have led to this probably some I would never even think about, but some of the major ones that I think contribute to this is first and foremost the utter lack of interpersonal communication we see among people this age. they don't know how to interact they don't know how to read body language they don't know how to pick on nonverbal cues. I ran into this trying to teach a class full of 19 year olds how to do an interview.

    Women for whatever reason I don't know if it's genetic or something they are taught that is young girls have a greater ability to pick up on body language and nonverbal cues. Boys would learn this sort of thing in high school and even middle School dating. But they don't do that anymore. So the boys lose out on their formative years learning how to read not verbal cues.

    There are other issues and other pitfalls and I think that female Behavior can be just as toxic as male Behavior and I don't think it's more so on one than the other.
     
  5. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just told my husband if he won't marry me in six months he should leave now :lol: should have kept my mouth shut :roflol:
     
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  6. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    "Nice guys" might be nice, but - in general - they lack the self-esteem and bravery it takes to ask a girl out - They value her friendship higher than they value the risk of being rejected. It is an entirely self-constructed situation and the person only who can defeat it is the "nice guy" himself.

    Some men fall into self pitty and find other men with similar experiences online with whom they can share their contempt for the girl they never dare asking out and project their own insecurities onto all women. Other men who would fall into the "nice guys"-category are simply too unconfident to even dream of ever having a romantic relationship even if their female friend actually does have feelings for him and actually is showing it. This personality prefers avoidance, most likely due to some form of childhood trauma.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  7. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    It is true that many women have unrealistic expectations and way too high standards when it comes to dating, but even this is - at least partially - to be blamed on men as it is men who keep catering to girls "below their league" because culture allows it.

    In smmary, it could be said that women's unrealistic expectations are the result of:
    1. The Sexual Revolution which normalised "one night stands" and shamed abstinence.
    2. Technologic advancements leading to what is called "Internet dating".

    Now that there is no longer any societal expectations or pressure on the young to get married and have children, people wait longer and longer to start a family, something that - due to biological reasons - hurts women the most With increasing sexualisation and new technology such as Tinder, the "dating and mating market" gets highly inflated as there are no morals or norms on what constitutes "proper sexual behaviour" (rather, the norm is promiscuity).

    Men have been given free access to sleep with as many women they want and since men are not as picky as women, a "10/10 Chad" will settle for a "5/10" if it is just for the night. This gives the "5/10" an unrealistic self-image,making her beleive that she can actually have a guy that is a "10/10", leaving her to reject anyone below that standard. But, when it is finally time to settle down, "10/10 Chad" marries a younger "10/10" and the previously mentioned "5/10" woman is now having to combat her biological clock in the search of a man on her level at a state where most of them are already "taken".

    Technology also gives the "nice guy" an excuse not to even try as he can easily just get sexual gratification from pornography.

    Furthermore, the mainstream narrative is not exactly one that strives to foster peace and unity between the genders. When we are constantly fed with stories of "toxic masculinity" and "rape culture", many men (and especially "nice guys") start avoiding women. I think there was a recent study from the US showing that well-over 50% of male college-students think that offering a woman a drink qualifies for sexual harassment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  8. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Notice how you referred to males as men and females as girls
    I remember having a similar discussion with my husband pointing out how women had to sit and wait by the phone for a guy to call. And he pointed out how hard it was to call a woman and get rejected. I then realized that men were taking the risks and women were being passive.
     
  9. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    So some men get rejected? What is that like?
     
  10. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I think men for the most part take the experience and learn from it. Or at least they should, plenty of fish in the sea you know. Maybe a man would try and better himself.

    Have you heard of the fat acceptance movement? I really don't think this is woman's fault I think they've been conditioned into believing that they are perfect the way they are. Could you imagine the violence that would ensue if men were coached into this?
     
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