The Poverty Of Contemporary Science

Discussion in 'Science' started by impermanence, May 19, 2022.

  1. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is a ridiculous fantasy claim.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Not once do you ask how science responds to the cherry picked papers you find that you THINK support your view and therefore invalidate the world of climatological sciences.

    You want your chosen paper to overturn science. And, the fact that it hasn't worked out for you now makes you claim it must be activism.

    But, clearly YOU are the one calling for activism.

    Regardless of what the world of climatological sciences say, you demand they all should flip.
     
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  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't demand anything. I rely on the research.
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Your whole premise is that science is failing, because it doesn't agree with your preconceived notions.

    And, no, you are not "relying on research" - you are cherry picking paper you think agree with you. And, you aren't even checking to see what the rest of the scientists think of your papers.

    That's not science. That's politics.
     
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  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    No. I'm relying on science to defeat political madness.
     
  6. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Do you really believe that Newton's physics will still be thought to be true in the year 3000? 5000? 10,000?

    It is the nature of all things knowable that they constantly change. It's the way thinking works.
     
  7. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Pick your poison.
     
  8. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    This makes absolutely no sense.

    Science is change. Okay. Whoopi, big deal. So what?
     
  9. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Because many who use science, treat it as if it is religion.
     
  10. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I'll play along; how so?

    Sans of course the fact that most folks aren't scientists and therefore place their trust in scientific experts and institutions.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.

    Newton came up with some ideas that have to do with the fundamental way that this universe works. This isn't about changing ideas.

    This isn't about "thinking". It's about the fact that there are fundamental ways in which our universe isn't changing.
     
  12. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    In many quarters, science is looked to like religion, attempting to answer the fundamental questions of life and death. Here, religion has a great advantage of being quazi-mystical.

    A perfect example of how science can go so wrong was with COVID.
     
  13. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    I get that you believe that there are some things that are unchanging but can you give me one example of something that has always been thought to be true?
     
  14. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    I see you typing words, but you're not saying anything. What "quarters" are you referring to?
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That's an easy question. Essentially NOTHING has always been thought to be true.

    Science is designed to move knowledge forward. That means that there will be ideas that are determined to be false.

    But, there are fundamentals that absolutely do stand the test of time.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
  16. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Please give examples...
     
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The physical forces we know of have always existed, though they were unknown through much of human history.

    The same goes for evolution. It was unknown for a long time. But, that mechanism was at work before humans even existed.

    These were not always known, but have existed and do stand the test of time.

    Humans once had elaborate explanations for the movement of the planets, sun and stars based on the notion that Earth was the center of the cosmos. Obviously, that idea has been replaced, and it is clear that our better understanding has existed since the beginning of our universe.
     
  18. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    It appears as if you are making my argument. Reality is what it is...being perfect in each moment. Mankind's understanding constantly evolves as new information is added. Since our intellect can never access Reality, it doesn't matter how much information is added as his understanding will change indefinitely.

    It is taking this idea into account that changes one's approach to many things, including science.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The fact that humans are constantly learning is not a sign of poverty.

    Besides that, our decisions need to be based on the best knowledge we have today. Any other choice would be foolish.
     
  20. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    The poverty is the idea that people attach to the current ideas in science instead of seeing them as transitory. Again, COVID is a perfect example of how fallacious thinking morphs into disastrous public policy.
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You haven't identified anything as being transitory.

    The problem with our approach to COVID is that far too many people simply ignored even the weak policy that was promulgated. Plus, our policy makers made explicit decisions to be unprepared.

    The speed with which medical science designed and tested COVID vaccines was remarkable - far surpassing the design and testing of any other vaccine in history.
     
  22. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    EVERYTHING [that can be known] is transitory. Impermanence is the essence of intellectual being.

    Had the government minded its own business, this would have been over and done within less than a year with minimal business disruption. COVID proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that government almost always screws things up. COVID will go down as the greatest public policy error of all-time.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Medical science throughout the world advocated for people to wear masks and get vaccinated.

    Government policy on COVID was weak. We allowed travel without verification of vaccination or even just COVID testing. We were slow to nonexistent on requiring masking, a standard precaution against disease transmission. We required no vaccinations. We failed on multiple occasions to be prepared for pandemic, and it's still quite questionable whether we've improved on that.

    Today, we still have people who reject vaccination, and that is the population that is suffering the most from COVID, and keeping COVID more active than necessary in the USA.

    The following contains a chart showing incidences and death rates for those who are vaccinated vs those not vaccinated. The chart includes differences during specific time periods in the USA.

    The chart is a little over half way down.

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm
     
  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.”

    --Anthony Fauci, 2020
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It's important to know that masks are not perfect shields. They provide a percentage of protection.

    Wearing a mask doesn't mean group contact isn't a risk, for example.

    Do you think it would be better if people were not informed of that???
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022

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