The prescience of Carl Sagan

Discussion in 'Science' started by Bowerbird, Jul 13, 2021.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    A wonderful look back at a great man. He was ropight about the “dumbing of America” but even he could not foresee how science has been discredited
     
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    It's not just Carl Sagan...there are plenty of people today, from all walk's-of-life, who are dumbfounded by the lack of respect for science. The scientific process and discipline is in place in order to study and understand stuff avoiding bias and politics and religion, etc. And scientists know we can only know what we know at this very moment...everything is open for future review and modification. This in it's very essence denotes a lack of arrogance. But when dumb-**** people prefer their 'opinions' over science, this is the absolute essence of arrogance. The lower point below this arrogance and ignorance is the righteousness when the dumb-**** people try to force their BS on others!

    We have a 100% non-functioning Congress...how much dumber can we get...
     
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  3. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    The word science can also be basterdised to influence pubic opinion. Rush Limbaugh was a genius at that. Just publish anything in the name of science to sway public opinion. I could write a blog call it science while containing virtually nothing but opinion.
     
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  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Science has been politicized, not dumbed down.
     
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  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Science has one definition...anything else 'pretending' to be science is BS...
     
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  6. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    “I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and whats true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), the lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance. - Carl Sagan
     
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  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    America has been dumbed down. That has been happening for a very long time. And that is why we have people like Alex Jones, a total nut by any reasonable standard, a guy who claimed the dead children at Sandy Hook were really actors, a man deemed by a court to be too dangerous to be around his own children, getting praise from people like trump; and a huge online and radio RW following.

    Science is self correcting. It doesn't need any help from Republicans, Alex Jones, or trump. The science will stand long after these anti-science zealots are gone.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
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  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The politicization of science is anti-science. Right now this admin is pushing anti-science policies based on fear and agenda.
     
  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Science cannot be politicized except by those who do not respect the scientific discipline. I challenge you to politicize the theory of gravity??
     
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  10. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh so little understanding of how science has been politicized.
     
  11. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not sure if I agree that Americans are necessarily becoming less intelligent. I think the Internet has given the stupid an unregulated (and more publically visible) playpen to spray paint in.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
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  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I'm waiting for you to politicize the theory of gravity?? Obviously you can't so my point is science is a discipline that does not include politics or religion or any other BS. Politics is created by idiots...
     
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  13. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your logical fallacy addresses nothing.
     
  14. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    When the collective 'we' are incompetent to define problems, to analyze problems, to find solutions to those problems, with consensus, the system is broken and I suggest this is partly atributed to ignorance. People have had access to information, libraries, encyclopedias, and the Internet forever; it's not a lack of factual information that is the problem today...it's the arrogance and righteousness of many who believe their personal opinions outweigh the facts...
     
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  15. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    NO...you address nothing!
     
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  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That you don't know much about this is not my problem.
     
  17. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Men who lie and distort cannot be "great."
     
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  18. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any example in which Carl Sagan lied and distorted anything? No opinions please...just some data...
     
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  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Has America been dumbed down or have Americans always been at this level? Perhaps the complexities of contemporary life and government issues have simply grown faster than American's ability to comprehend these complexities? Average Americans today are clueless to the scope and complexity and technical aspects of today's issues...all of which have grown beyond most people's comprehension. Few can even identity the root issues, and almost none can productively discuss these issues, and seems that none can find consensus on anything. This does not bode well for the future...
     
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  20. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    You mean when he was in the Oval Office jumping up and down on Jimmy Carter's desk screaming at Carter that glaciers would be rumbling down Pennsylvania Avenue if Carter didn't do what he said, or do you mean when he lied about his version of a nuclear war that would cause a Nuclear Winter and wipe out humanity?

    Exactly how much particulate matter does a nuclear-tipped torpedo or nuclear depth charge cast up into the upper atmosphere?

    Maybe you can have a seance and explain that to him, because he doesn't seem to understand the difference between underwater, surface level, the troposphere and the upper atmosphere.

    If you're successful in doing that, perhaps you can help him understand that below the tropopause, a nominal-sized particle (~42 microns) falls at a rate of 2,000 feet per hour.
     
  21. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    It's a mixed bag. It is true that the world is changing quickly. But schools are constantly being dumbed down. In many colleges, subject matter once taught to freshman or sophomores is now taught to juniors or seniors. But you have a point too. College professors were constantly pointing to the downward slide. But at the same time, far more people attend college now than ever before. College was once reserved for the elite and the smartest among us. Now, in many fields, some kind of college degree is considered to be a minimum requirement. And you don't have to be brilliant to attend college now, Almost anyone can get into some college. So one would expect the IQ of the average college student to be dropping.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Link to any of that twaddle please
     
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  23. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Nothing you said is true.
     
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  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Many many apologies to the impressively intelligent and well educated Americans here but I keep looking at Rand Paul and thinking “if this guy has a medical degree what does that say about American medical education?”
     
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Oh! BTW a bit of a treat for Sagan fans - a “song”

     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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