The prescience of Carl Sagan

Discussion in 'Science' started by Bowerbird, Jul 13, 2021.

  1. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    He's only an eye doctor.

    It's not like he's a virologist or immunologist. And having a medical degree obviously doesn't cure jackassism.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Bit like an orthopod
    “How do you hide a $20 note from an Orthopaedic surgeon? Stick it in a textbook :p
     
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  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    He promoted the concept of nuclear winter while later admitting that he did NOT have the evidence to actually support it.
     
  4. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    In many ways, the nuclear winter theory was a game changer. The scientific community had never before tried to quantify or calculate the destruction that would come from all out nuclear war.
     
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  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    You obviously hate Carl Sagan and you can't provide instances in which Sagan 'LIED AND DISTORTED'.
     
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  6. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    He didn't say science has been dumbed down - he said America has. I'll leave the irony of that alone...
     
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  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Again, I don't think Americans are dumber...I just don't think Americans have kept up with the pace of world and domestic issues and their complexities. I think education has changed but not because we're dumber but because education itself has been dumbed-down for political and profit reasons. College education is still a great achievement for those who complete their degrees and can use their education for a career. I know college educated people who are not that bright and high school dropouts that are brilliant...education is a great asset but it takes more than an education to solve today's problems. Denying science is stupid yet 50% of Americans aren't that excited about science. People placing religion and politics and other personal preferences over what's in the best interest of the nation will never be productive or solve anything. I think we are simply experiencing the limitations of humans, of society, sort of like the Peter Principle...and where it all leads I don't know...
     
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  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Nuclear proliferation was a priority for Sagan and he used his celebrity to promote the possible outcome of a nuclear war...a nuclear winter. There could never be evidence since there was no history of such an event. The idea that a comet hitting Earth created mass-destruction suggested the same would happen with a nuclear war...even a small scale event in a regional location could greatly effect the entire world. It is an abstract theory but IMO one that needed to be communicated to the public and thankfully is still discussed today...
     
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  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    In his biography he openly admits to promoting the idea of nuclear winter despite the evidence not supporting it due to what he saw as the importance of making the case against the use of nuclear weapons.

    Ignoring the obvious.
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with OMOF but really you should look stuff up BEFORE posting

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scie...-warned-world-about-nuclear-winter-180967198/

    so there was a pending research paper and you may not remember the 1980s and nuclear drills but I do - we were living in fear of the wrong button being pushed at the wrong time especially since Reagan’s cognitive decline was visible to all.

    The nuclear winter theory (which has not been debunked) went a long way to limiting nuclear proliferation
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter
     
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  11. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I have Carl Sagan's official biography on my bookshelf where he talks about the lack of evidence in support of the nuclear winter theory and his reasoning for promoting it anyway.
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    So………your evidence for your assertion is “it is in a book but I can’t prove that it is there and despite you showing evidence to the contrary I will continue to tell you you are wrong because of the book on my bookshelf” :roll:

    My observations in the OP stand
     
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  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You are wrong.
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And you have no evidence
     
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  15. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    If I cite pages numbers in Sagan's biography will you take that seriously?
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No
    How about you find it online and do a cut and paste - it is possible. I am betting you have either misremembered or misunderstood given what the Smithsonian and the Wiki articles say
     
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  17. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Page 337 of Carl Sagan: A Life In the Cosmos by William Poundstone.
     
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or politicized.

    But then again he would only have had to look back to the Nazis to see that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    “Preview unavailable “ so i cannot check it out and, sorry but I take no ones word without reading it myself
     
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  20. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't that apply to anything you post as well?
     
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I do try to link to all material I rely on and you can always request it of me. If you note even on this point of disagreement I went to the trouble of posting from sources that did not agree with your premise.
     
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  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I'm sure the Soviets decided to cut back their nuclear arsenal due to the concept of nuclear winter.

    Get real.
     
  23. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Yes, they did for that and other reasons. Reagan and Gorbachev agreed that the risk to the planet from nukes was too great. So they agreed to work together and did reduce the size of the nuclear arsenals.
     
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  24. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    And what makes you think the idea of nuclear winter played a major role in that? Ronald Reagan had been on the record for decades as wanting to eliminate nuclear weapons
     
  25. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    No he hadn't. Just the opposite. He had opposed controls on nukes and opposed related legislation but later changed his mind.

    You don't even know the most basic facts. Why do you insist on posting nonsense? We all know better. You aren't fooling anyone.
     
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