The problem of Capitalism

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by stan1990, Mar 13, 2019.

?

Do you agree that the main problem of Capitalism is of moral nature?

Poll closed Apr 12, 2019.
  1. Yes

    33.3%
  2. No

    50.0%
  3. Maybe

    16.7%
  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They do indeed love it. On another thread, they're spruiking higher minimum wages as an impetus for further consumption.

    As per the broken record .. Progs are the best capitalists we have.
     
    Idahojunebug77 and Longshot like this.
  2. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They don't quite understand what needs to happen before consumption can occur.
     
  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And they don't realise that we can see their motive for seeking increased spending. As per my comment on the other thread: it will keep the poor, poor .. while lining the pockets of rich.

    A-Grade capitalists.
     
  4. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am very clear, and you know it.
    False. Communities went to war over territory, but individual persons never fought over it because before land was first appropriated as private property, no one was ever evil enough to think they had a right to exclude others from it.
    Title deeds were merely a quick and dirty solution to the problem of securing rightful property in fixed improvements, not -- all too obviously -- because they ever stopped communities from fighting over territory. Indeed, title deeds became a privilege worth individuals fighting over, which individuals' liberty rights to use land hadn't been. Slavery was also a great advancement: it spared the lives of defeated captives following wars over territory, thus greatly increasing the available supply of labor and enabling population increase and material progress.
    No, I mean other members of the community. Kings were just a convenient way to organize communities, a quick and dirty solution to a real problem, like land titles.
    <yawn> Can't you do anything but make $#!+ up about what I have plainly written? Farming has nothing to do with it, and I am the one -- not you -- who has proposed a way to ensure that everyone -- not just landowners -- has free, secure, exclusive tenure on enough of the available advantageous land of their choice to have access to economic opportunity without having to meet the extortion demands of a private parasite or even pay any fee to the community that secures the tenure.
    You are the one who advocates landowner privilege limited only by landowners' charitable conscience, not me, and I will thank you to remember it.
     
  5. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So the state will be the sole entity with landowner privilege? That sounds like a monopoly.
     
    crank likes this.
  6. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You know it is true.
    ]
    Already disproved multiple times, with no attempt at a response.
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'll just leave this here. I doubt I need to respond.
     
  8. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. No one will have landowner privilege. The state will provide secure exclusive tenure in return for just compensation to the community of those excluded: a voluntary, market-based, beneficiary-pay, value-for-value transaction.
    The monopoly is on the sovereign authority to administer possession and use of land, which is necessary to avoid constant bloodshed over it.
     
  9. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You have been demolished utterly, you know it, and you have no answers. Simple.
     
    gottzilla likes this.
  10. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Great. So I'll be able to use any land I wish without any interference. Fantastic.
     
  11. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, only if it doesn't interfere with anyone else's exercise of their rights. As I have explained to you so very clearly and patiently, multiple times, and you so disingenuously refuse to acknowledge.
     
  12. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So I won't be able to use the land nature provided. WTF? Who has the right to stop me from using what nature provided?
     
  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh lordy .. I actually spat a little coffee. Bless your heart, BIO :D
     
  14. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your system will allow anyone to live anywhere they wish for free? How?
     
    crank likes this.
  15. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, only citizens resident within the borders, and only on the AVAILABLE land -- i.e., land that no one else has paid the community for exclusive tenure to -- of their choice.
    Yes, up to the universal individual exemption (UIE) amount of the advantageous land. The less valuable the land, the more of it you could use exclusively for free.
    By exempting a uniform amount of the location subsidy repayment (LSR) for each citizen resident on any given parcel.
     
  16. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So what happens when Bob and Bill both want the same land?
     
    crank likes this.
  17. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know, and you know, and I know that you know, that it hasn't.
    <yawn>
    I do when it's my rights that the evil claim to own as their property. You know this.
    <yawn> Like the abolitionists were....?
     
  18. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You'll be able to use it under certain conditions:
    1. If no one else pays for exclusive use of it.
    2. If you use no more than the exempt amount of advantageous land people would pay to use.
    3. If you make just compensation to the community for what you use in excess of the exempt amount.
    Those who make just compensation for what they are thus taking from you and everyone else.
     
  19. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So under your system I can't use the land nature provided?
     
  20. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Who will make more compensation to everyone else for depriving them of it?
     
  21. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You can under any of the three specified conditions, which serve to secure and reconcile the equal individual rights of all to use it without inflicting injustice.
     
  22. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Conditions?? Who can impose conditions on me having access to what nature has provided? WTF?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    crank likes this.
  23. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The main problem of capitalism is that it’s fundamentalist proponents admit no problems. If history has taught us anything, it is that nothing is perfect and nothing lasts forever. Systems that cannot observe problems, cannot adapt to resolve those problems... and eventually fail.

    Generally, capitalist proponents promote unequivocal orthodoxy as the supreme and uncompromising value... which they believe is the exclusive path to the optimal solution. So when problems arise, their only tools are denial or applying a more rigorous version of capitalism.
     
  24. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,396
    Likes Received:
    3,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Those whose function and duty it is to secure and reconcile the equal individual rights of all to do so. Conditions are necessary to prevent exclusive tenure from just being a source of constant injustice and violent conflict.
     
  25. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So your system would prevent me from freely using any land that nature has provide that I wish to use?
     

Share This Page