The Problem of Health Care

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by LafayetteBis, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Its of course easy to attack the Democrats. They cemented neoliberalism, guaranteeing a permanent shift to the right. They've also been happy to embrace unethical foreign policy. By choosing an elitist establishment figure like Clinton, they also created the perfect conditions for forcing Trump on the world. But this is more than that, this is application of political economy.

    The defence of Democrat uselessness comes from the median voter model. Essentially an adaptation of oligopoly, it suggests that relative consensus will develop. Anything really progressive, at least according to this defence of the bland, will alienate too many voters. This is overly simplistic (and ignores how such centrism has become deeply unpopular). Behavioural concepts inform us of our predictability in our bias. By failing to come out with anything radical, it necessarily encourages a status quo bias favouring Republican inaction.

    Yep, I do blame the Democrats for having zero political economic sense. Health care has suffered from their lack of progressive purpose.
     
  2. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Compared to other systems, the US adopts a much more market orientated approach. The empirical evidence highlights the stupidity in that. We have stochastic frontier and DEA analydis that shows use of the market ironically inflames inputs and stunts outputs. Right wingers do seem awfully happy with inefficiency and waste...
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  3. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    the old folks nearing the end of their lives just don't realize that they're going get cut off, to produce the efficiency you speak of
     
  4. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    A nonsensical response. Economic efficiency means more operations with fewer resources. Obviously this is a major reason for the high amenable mortality in the US.
     
  5. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    what's an "operation" ?
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    At least we can see where your understanding of health care come from :)

    Numerous outputs are included in healthcare efficiency analysis. Why dont you know that? And why are you supporting inefficiency that reduces the numbers benefitting from health investments?
     
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  7. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    I'm supporting an individal patient who benefits the most from an individual physician's assessment and treatment and not those prescribed by lame brained economists who know nothing of medicine, who think each patient is a clone of the next and that an average can be treated uniformly,.....

    .....and who benefit by government contract to produce such nonsense
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You're supporting inefficiency and therefore fewer treatments. Right wing coercion in full ugly display
     
  9. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    I do not know, when I talk to people at work or other places, they seems to be totally ignorant about American health care system.
    The issue is simple, majority of Americans are banned from access to Medicare (government managed health insurance).
    I think that ban violates constitutional principles of equal protection under the law.
    Most people do not understand it.
     
  10. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Humans aren't beans.
     
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    COMPARATIVE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS PERFORMANCE

    Well put.

    I agree that most of the problem lies with the fact that Americans LARGELY do not have a viable understanding of the attributes of a "social democracy". Aside from the fact that they have been trained to equate socialism and communism. Which is laughably incorrect.

    All social-democracies in Europe have national healthcare systems that provide overall coverage of the population, and at costs that are administered/maintained by governments (which finances them).

    The US healthcare system is one of the best in the world; but it is not THE best. Because it is too damn expensive.

    Anyway, multiple studies have been made of comparable national Health Care systems. From here is what the the ranking of healthcare systems looks like - the image is more clear if you open it by clicking it:
    [​IMG]

    Note the lower ranking of the US healthcare system when cost is a comparative factor.

    Or yet another that does not make the US system - given its exorbitant cost - look good compared to systems funded by national governments:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
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  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I knew we could get you to sat something correct eventually ;)
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    In our form of government, speaking out is incredibly important.
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    If you think you're going to get better healthcare coverage by voting for Republicans you've managed to learn NOTHING from 30 to 40 YEARS of history.
     
  15. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I've made no pro Republican comment. I've simply referred to the political economy. Its Democrat uselessness which has empowered the Republicans.

    Centrism (although as it embraces neoliberalism it really is a hard right perspective) does struggle so with self reflection.
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Voting is also a form of "speaking-out" and it is far more effective.

    Voter turnout has stagnated - once upon a time in the late 19th century they were around three-quarters of the population. Since, however, they have declined to just above half the total voting population.

    A bit more than half the country voting (around 52%) is due to Unacceptable Lassitude, and makes one wonder if a fine is not necessary to get people back to the polls. It would also help if American finally adopted a bonafide National Identity Card.

    PS: And I suspect that the reason why voter turnout is so low is because of the way votes are manipulated in the Electoral College (first-person-past-the-post-winner-takes-all".) It must put-off a lot a people who think that the fact that their vote will be thrown into the dustbin must turn-off a good many people.

    This is the consequence of that statement, from here:
    First-past-the-post voting

    Indeed, I am one of the more vociferous parties. Two party voting in the US is far more simple than elsewhere in the world with multiple political-party systems. But, that simplicity makes it all the more easily manipulable.

    Howzat, "manipulable"?

    The most flagrant failure of the present system in America is that five times in history, the winner of the popular-vote was not elected PotUS. (Donald Dork is only the latest.) As you must know, the EC has a number of electoral-votes in relation to its population. Supposedly, but even that manner of voting is finally being questioned. See here:
    Why Democrats Want to Abolish the Electoral College—and Republicans Want to Keep It

    Excerpt:


    Why do Replicants want to keep it? Because this party has done the most to assure that manipulating both state-district voting and PotUS-voting, they get more value-for-the-money-input. (Particularly as regards protecting America's very low Upper-income Taxation!) Most recently, both Replicants Bush and Donald Dork were elected unfairly - they clearly had LOST the majority popular-vote of the nation.

    Both the EC and gerrymandering of state-voting precincts are voting methods that have NOT been adopted by most other developed nations on earth.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Good points.

    Those two features are serious problems.

    I'd add that Washington, DC has more citizens than two other states, but nobody there has representation in congress. There is not justice in Wyoming have congressmen, but DC does not.

    There are solutions to DC that do not require a constitutional amendment - as has been demonstrated in the past when some of the origial 10 square miles was ceded by to the state from which it came - resulting in today's strange shape.

    In fact, DC is ruled by congress. They can't even create their own budget or levy their own taxes without asking congress to agree. We tax them without representation.

    Likewise, all those born in Puerto Rico are American citizens and are ruled as an Article IV territory, subject to all federal law but with zero representation. They were subject to compulsory draft during the Vietnam war. The US Supreme Court decides which of our rights apply to Americans living in Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico can't set it's own policy with other nations.

    Yet,, they have no congressional representation and can not vote for the president. Again, we tax them without representation.

    The status of Puerto Rico as a total travesty.
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with this part.

    Every US state has a vote by mail system in place where people do not need any form of ID to vote.

    Three states have NO OTHER way of voting - CO, OR, WA.

    As a resident of WA, I (and every other registered voter) get my ballot in the mail and send it back postage free - or I can drop it in a secure recepticle at a county cite.

    There are NUMEROUS points of attack that come with having polling stations. We should be getting rid of every last oe of them.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any hint in your posts of how representative government works.
     
  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good post.

    I would add however that the US needs an Identity Card by which proof of "residence" and therefore "nationality" can be employed to obtain a means of voting either by mailed ballot or by Internet.

    Whatever the method, we must find a way to get the other half of the population to understand that bitching and moaning in a blog is NOT FREEDOM OF SELECTION of one's representatives to either state of national legislatures.

    Only voting can do that ...

    *Especially when combined with the monstrous waste of money for TV commercials that sell politicians like they were hamburgers ...
     
  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's patently obvious if one follows it. Do you even KNOW how to do so?

    Most happenings in both state and national legislatures get reported. You have to go looking for it, because papers/magazines don't get bought because they report what's happening in said legislatures. Unless they think it is of direct interest.

    Government is not an easy function to either observe or follow in depth. Whyzat?

    Because our level of Civics Instruction in the US is not as effective as it should be. In fact, it is in a pathetic state. From here: The State of Civics Education - excerpt:
    'Nuff said? Probably not ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes - it's somewhat of a two pronged problem. People need to register. Then, they need to vote.

    My comments were pretty much limited to the voting part, where most states have polling places that offer a number of significant opportunities for giving significant advantage to one candidate over others.

    More ID laws are an impediment to voting that I don't believe offers greater security than our system in WA or in the absenee balloting in many states. The point here is that EVERY state has a "vote by mail" system. So, that needs to be secure. Once that is secure, there isn't a reason to allow only a few to use it.

    And, pollling stations are not free.

    I'm less worried about the ads, EXCEPT that they are being funded by special interests and the very wealthy.

    (And, now we find that its even being affected by foreign interests, with our own government actually DOING that, rather than working to prevent it.)
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That was inadequate to identifying that our president was using our tax dollars to coerce the help of a foreign interest in our election.

    It also wasn't enough to prevent Reagan from selling arms to Iran (which was explicitly forbidden by congress) and to give that money to the Saninistas (a group that was explicitly denied US dollars by order of congress).

    It also didn't work in the case of Nixon covering up the raid on Democrats in order to gain election advantage.

    It also wasn't enough to gain the guilty pleas and convictions of so many Trump administration officials who were flagrantly breaking the law while working in our executive branch.

    What's your justification for covering up these cases?
     
  24. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Looks like an excuse to give no critique of the information provided. This of course all fits in with the lack of Democrat self-reflection and a party too dominated by a right wing elite incapable of debating political economy.
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The fact is, Dems have worked hard to increase the number of Americans with healthcare coverage. And, they made serious progress on that.

    AND, we have a president who ran AGAINST that and is actually working to defeat that progress through the court system. And, not just this once. AND, congressional Republicans have held more than 60 votes to trash our system entirely - without ANYTHING to replace it. In fact, in the state of the union Trump once again said he is the protector of coverage for those with preexisting conditions!!! But, he has worked diligently to kill that. AND, he has NO PLAN for how that would work today.

    Now, YOU come along and moan about Dems not making more progress???

    Dude, on this topic the contrast between the parties could not be more stark.
     

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