The Problems With The Bible

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by The Wyrd of Gawd, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Like many of you, I have been discussing the Bible for many years and well acquainted with the stories and their points. But, there are some areas that I have never discussed or seen raised by other posters. I think that these are the primary problems with the Bible and why it is so flawed.

    The way I see it is that none of the major characters exhibit the slightest degree of empathy for anyone except for themselves. They are very self-centered characters who lack mercy, and that includes the Jesus entity. An attempt is made to depict him as kind and merciful but it is weak and he continually shows his intolerant and hateful side.

    Off hand I can only think of two minor characters in the Old Testament who showed any empathy to their fellow man. The first one is Lot’s wife, who looked back with sorrow while her former friends and neighbors were being consumed by the flames. She was punished (or rewarded) for her show of compassion by being turned into a pillar of salt, which indicates purity.

    The second minor character who displayed empathy was Pharaohs daughter, who had compassion on baby Moses and rescued him from the Nile (Exodus 2:6). This is also a major problem with the biblical story because all of the Hebrew baby boys were under a death penalty, yet Pharaoh*s daughter raised him as her son (Exodus 2:10). How was she able to do that under those conditions? From the story, Moses always knew that he was a Hebrew yet he was raised as an Egyptian prince (the movies make a big thing of that). Were Egyptian princesses in the habit of showing up with babies when they were not even married or previously pregnant? Would they dare go against their father’s commands?

    So, the main problems are the lack of empathy by any of the major characters and the BS story about the princess rescuing Moses.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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  2. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I am surprised that no one has cited Esau as a character who showed empathy. He was treated like trash by his rotten family, especially by his mother, His daddy was a creep and his brother behaved like a thug toward him. They hated him from the beginning and went ballistic when he refused to marry his relatives and went with foreign women instead. He is the only character in the entire Bible that the God character hates. If he wasn't so forgiving and emphatic he would have gutted his rotten family like a flock of sheep. Esau is one of the several characters in the Bible who had any real morals.
     
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  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    There are several bible stories about the younger brother getting over on the older brother..
     
  4. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What i find to be somewhat amazing is the shift in social perspective over the last 50 years. It used to be that expressing these opinions turned on into a pariah. Being an atheist was approximately as acceptable as being gay

    Now, these ideas can be expressed and discussed in public. There are respectable public figures who advocate these ideas.... and debate in public with theists. There are a large number if youtube channels almost exclusively focusing upon... and supporting non theism

    Quite a change, and a welcome one imo
     
  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    IMO, if you look at history objectively you can see how people's love affair with the biblical fairy tale turned them into monsters capable of doing all sorts of truly evil things without a second thought. Almost all of the stories praise characters who lack empathy and hold them up as righteous because they were obeying God. We see the effects of that continuing evil every day in the way so many people are mistreated because of who they are. There are a few good passages in the Bible but 99% of it is pure garbage. It is still a well-written story because it is so effective at brain-washing people to do evil.
     
  6. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People also ignore 99% of the Bible
    But are not necessarily more inclined to ignore the garbage.... people wanna know what foods they can eat, what clothing they must wear, and whom they can summarily cast out of proper society (or cut off their head)

     
  7. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I think that all major societies follow the First Commandment = Exodus 34:11-16, which states to invade other people's land, kill and enslave, them, and destroy their religious artifacts. They also follow the parts about being intolerant toward other people who have different ideas. That is the majority of the Bible.
     
  8. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Another major thing that is wrong with the Bible is that it praises the very behaviors that it condemns. For example, it says that women witches must be killed but it doesn't say that men sorcerers must meet the same fate. While it doesn't like sorcerers, all of the guys who did magic tricks, such as Moses, Jesus, and Paul, were all sorcerers. They are held up as paragons of righteousness but their behavior was in direct violation of the rules.
     
  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Samson had magic hair and Jesus had magic spit and David loved foreskins. I wonder who had magic toenails?
     
  10. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing new here, the New Atheism is recycled hogwash from the Old Atheists such as Voltaire, etc.
     
  11. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    We ignore those parts because we aren't members of the now defunct theocracy of Israel, who those commands were directed at. Context is everything. I also don't think when Jesus told Peter to walk on the water that it applies to me either.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  12. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    That's due to a total misunderstanding of customs.

    Let's start at the beginning, so that we might come to understand.

    Terah was a priest in the city of Ur. That's an Akkadian city and the principle god was El Shaddai, known as Ninurta in Sumerian language.

    Terah is an Akkadian. Like most men, Terah had wives and concubines and he had a son and daughter who married, Abram (Abraham) married his half-sister Serai (Sarah) as was the custom in Sumer and Akkad.

    Priests are appointed by kings and the position is hereditary, so Abram was a priest-in-training.

    Until a couple of centuries ago, New Years was celebrated on the Spring Equinox. The Sumerians and Akkadians and everyone else used a 360 day intercalated calendar. On the last day of the year, Terah, with Abram in tow, would climb the steps to the top of El Shaddai's temple and read one tablet from the 7 Tablets of Creation each evening as part of the New Year celebration. Crowds would gather below and listen and some dressed up and acted out the parts of the gods just like people do at the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

    Some 1,200 years later, Hebrew authors and editors of the Old Testament didn't understand that and conflated the 7 Tablets of Creation with 7 Days of Creation (and in reality there were 6 tablets relating creation acts and the 7th tablet extolling the virtues of the gods).

    That's why that is so.

    Later, Terah, Abram and Serai go to Haran. What a shocker.

    Haran happens to be the principle city of Teshub, who is El Shaddai/Ninurta in the Hurrian language.

    Then apparently Abram and Serai go to Canaan and leave Terah in Haran.

    Abram's first son is Ishmael, but it is the second son Isaac who gets the birth-right.

    Why? Because Abram being an Akkadian follows Sumerian/Akkadian customs. The order of precedence is:

    1) Preferred half-sister wife
    2) Half-sister wife if no other half-sister wives
    3) Preferred wife
    4) Wife if no other wives
    5) Concubines by order of rank

    Since Ishmael's mother is a concubine and Serai is a half-sister, Isaac gets the birth-right.

    We see this again with Jacob.

    Joseph is the 12th-born, but he gets the birth-right.

    Why? Because Rachel is the preferred wife. Reuben, Simeon and Levi were born to concubines and although Judah was the first-born of Leah, and Jacob married Leah first, Rachel is the preferred wife.

    Legally, Joseph is now the head, the tribal chief, the leader of all the clans, and not only does he get half of all of Jacob's land, he gets to choose the best half or parts for himself.

    But, Joseph forgoes his birth-right and passes it onto his sons, and it goes to the second-born Ephraim. Why? Because Ephraim's mother was either the preferred wife or the only wife and Manasseh's mother was a concubine (the text isn't clear about their mothers).

    That means Ephraim is the sole legal heir of all of Israel, not Judah.

    Now that you understand that, you can understand why E and J wrote what they wrote and why those two groups E and J were in conflict.

    For the E writer, his heroes are X-Moses and Samuel, and he is concerned with people from the tribe of Ephraim, not to mention he refers to god as the plural elohim.

    For the J writer, his heroes are Aaron and Judah, and he is concerned with the tribe of Judah, not to mention he refers to god as Yahweh.

    The J writer lies, exaggerates, distorts and lies by omission to justify the ascendancy and supremacy of Judah over all others.

    Example:

    E says Joseph's brothers wanted to murder Joseph, but Reuben the eldest intervenes and suggests they sell Joseph to a passing trade caravan instead.

    J also says Joseph's brothers wanted to murder Joseph, but since Judah is J's hero, J claims it was Judah who intervened and suggested they throw Joseph into a well, then later a passing trade caravan hears Joseph's pleas for help, rescues him, and takes him to Egypt.

    E says Jacob paid 100 shekels for Shechem, but J claims Simeon and Levi and their retainers murdered all the men of Shechem to acquire it.

    The last is important, because J claims Reuben slept with one of Jacob's concubines and that disqualifies him from supremacy, and then Simeon and Levi are disqualified because of the murders they committed in Shechem, leaving the untainted Judah as supreme.

    The strange thing is the murder of the men of Shechem disqualifies Levites from supremacy, but not from the priesthood.

    So, if you commit murder, you cannot rule, but you can be a priest?

    That's not making any sense.

    Why are the Levites priests? Well, you have to read the story of the Golden Calf. After Aaron creates two molten golden images of bulls, X-Moses asks, "Who will stand with Yahweh?" and it is the Levites who rush to the side of X-Moses, draw their swords and slaughter 3,000 people, but don't kill Aaron who made the bulls in the first place.

    After that, X-Moses says, "You are now the priests of Yahweh."

    That's why Levites are priests.

    And while I'm at it, yes, X-Moses is the correct translation.

    "Moses" is not Canaanite. It's Egyptian, and it's rendered m-s-s and it means "emanated or emanating from."

    It was always, without exception, without fail, prefixed with the name of a god. Some examples are Ptahmoses, Rameses, Tutmoses, Tothmoses and the like.

    If I had to guess, I'd say X-Moses' real name was Ahnmoses, Ankhmoses or Amonmoses (and it would take me too long to explain why).

    It was most likely the Yahweh fanatics Jeremiah, Hilkiah and Sapshan who wrote Deuteronomy who deleted the name of a god they found to be offensive.

    Remember that Jeremiah, Hilkiah and Sapshan had orgasmic fantasies when King Hezekiah tore down the temples King Solomon built to the gods Chemosh, Dagan, Milcomm and Yahweh's wife Asherah.

    And all three had orgasmic fantasies when King Josiah (Hezekiah's grandson) tore down the monuments at Dan and Beth-El and destroyed the holy relic that Yahweh commanded X-Moses to make.

    Think about that for a second.

    Yahweh commands X-Moses to fashion a copper snake, mount it on a pole and then when a Hebrew is bitten by a snake, they can be healed by looking at the copper snake mounted on a pole that Yahweh told X-Moses to make.

    And Jeremiah, Hilkiah and Sapshan took great delight when King Josiah destroyed that relic.

    You have to remember those are Aaronid priests, meaning descendants of Aaron.

    What happened to the Mosaic priests, the ones descended of X-Moses?

    When King Saul dies, there's a fight for power and the Mosaic priests did not support David. When David becomes king, he expels the Mosaic priests from the Temple, then the Aaronid priests go to Shiloh and murder all of the Mosaic priests in a massacre, except one who escaped.

    If you don't understand that, you won't understand half of what you read.
     
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  13. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    There is no context in which it is morally permissible to murder people for blasphemy, apostasy, homosexuality, etc. The quickest way to find a moral subjectivist is to ask a Christian to read the Old Testament.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  14. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Funny how those who think it OK for a woman do do 'with her own body' to abort her child, but that it isn't OK for God to do with His creation as He sees fit. If you can't grasp the concept of sin of course you won't understand sin's punishment in relation to the OT theocracy of Israel.

    For Pete's Sake, we nuked Japan in living memory.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Funny how you think abortion is infanticide and condemn it as such . . . while still defending your scripture's defense of infanticide.

    But keep defending the "morality" of a murderous theocracy. That's as hilarious as it is revealing.

    Keep defending theocratic murder and infanticide while judging the morality of others. Please. Post that garbage as much as you want.
     
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think The Wyrd of Gawd is just trying to be contrarian. Most of the arguments in the opening post are disingenuous, and the claims completely unsubstantiated.

    I'm more than willing to discuss legitimate criticism, but the points in the opening post are (or at least seem to me) of such low intellectual caliber that they're hardly worth discussing.

    But I suppose non-sensical things will seem to make sense to you when you have already made up your opinion. Which is so ironic because that's the very thing he would accuse Bible-believers of.

    For example, there is nothing about an adopted Israelite baby being adopted by an Egyptian princess and presented as an Egyptian that does not make sense. Obviously the account does not give the entire backstory or explain exactly what she told her father. Typically under those circumstances the father would have been very busy running the country, and in that culture the domestic sphere would have been entirely left up to the women of the household. (We can read in 2 Samuel how King David left the palace in the hands of his concubines when he had to flee)
    If his daughter wanted to adopt a baby, I doubt he would have asked any questions. It was probably assumed to be an Egyptian baby. She was a princess and would have had her own retinue of servants.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We also read how she hired a nurse to take care of the baby in secret. So Pharaoh would not have known about the child until later.

    I'm sure she later had a few babies, and Pharaoh probably wasn't keeping track of all his grandchildren (busy running the country, and kings mostly staying out of family life, he would have had multiple other wives and concubines on the side), so she could just present the child as one of her children later.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  18. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Was it "murder" when we nuked Japan?
     
  19. free man

    free man Well-Known Member

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    Some characters in the bible:
    Abraham sends his wife and son to die in the desert because the other wife wants to disposes that son.
    Later he tries to murder the other son because some voices told him to.
    Isak's wife colude with her son to decieve her blind husband to gain the upper hand on the other son.
    Jacob disposseses his older brother.
    Kain and Hevel, enough said.
    ...
     
  20. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Fascinating.. and it makes a lot of sense.
     
  21. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  22. Political Master

    Political Master Newly Registered

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    The problem with the Bible is two fold, is it fact or fiction, can one live by what it actually says....I think not.
     
  23. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much for that detailed explanation. It is the first time anyone has ever explained the complexities of the ancient Middle Eastern cultures. People just gloss over it or ignore it completely and now you have given us a new way to look at the story. Thanks.
     
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