The REAL Reason the Hard Left Supports Gun Control

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Ethereal, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Hysterical alarmists will rage, of course, but there is a real possibility the majority of Americans will finally get their way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  2. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And then the Republic fails and the chit hits the fan.
     
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  3. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It comes a knocking.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    The point is that the marketing increased demand for the products in question and therefore inflated the number of these weapons in circulation. Sans the whole 'self defense' marketing campaign by the big manufacturers there would be far fewer of these weapons in circulation today. - which would also mean less leakage form the legal to illegal markets.

    See the above.

    With regards to your first point it is best practice - as such it ensures the least possible change of accidental or deliberate misuse of firearms and/or ammunition. All the basic rules of firearm possession/use that you and I were taught e.g. always assume a firearm is loaded etc etc can be included under the heading of best practice.

    With regards to the Heller decision thanks for the summary. I wasn't aware of the case. Still doesn't change the the point I raised above about firearm storage & best practice - whether or not it can be legally enforced. In general this above still applies. Accepting that there will of course be rare exceptions to every rule.

    Which would be a silly claim to make if I was actually making it. The point is that the type of weapon used by a criminal amplifies the potential that criminal can inflict. As a general rule an assault rifle, if used in the commission of a felony has far more potential to inflict damage than other weapons.

    If living alone possibly. If anyone else has 'legal' access to the home, be even only occasionally then no. (Unless the weapon is under the direct possession/control of the owner at that time.)

    Again an issue of leakage for the legal market. Which again is an issue for the citizens US of the to address.

    Better enforcement would help, (easy to say of course - far harder to do). But that also would require the various State Governments to introduce and strictly police very similar laws governing the 2nd hand sale and transfer of firearms etc (the expression 'herding cats' comes to mind0. Buybacks might also help but of course they have to be paid for. All of which in the current US political climate is, I realize unlikely.

    For some reason you keep referencing the idea that firearms might have a will of their own (which BTW might have made an excellent Stephen King novel if he hadn't already written Christine). The point, once again is certain types of weapons allow criminals to inflict more harm on law abiding citizens than others. More harm means higher medical expenses. You could I suppose calculate the variable costs (as opposed to the fixed costs) caused by various types of weapons and impose an additional tax accordingly, as long as those taxes wern't then diverted to other uses.But again - no chance in hell in the current political climate.

    Sans changes to the law all I can think of are well funded TV and internet campaigns educating citizens on the dangers 'lending' firearms to others, secure storage options and legal firearm sale/exchange, buyback points in their vicinity etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  5. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Norway, Sweden, finland, holland.....etc
     
  6. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Errr..... yes, all of which are countries that are stained in blood, riven by social disorder & spiraling into economic collapse.

    Someone should warn them (I don't think they got the memo).
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  7. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    The sky is falling. The sky is falling!!!!!


    Lol
     
  8. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The legislation did not come to pass in the wake of Sandy Hook. It did not come to pass in the wake of the Las Vegas incident. It will not come to pass now. It is not going anywhere, and no amount of hysterical screaming is going to change that fact. Even if it did come to pass, it cannot be enforced, therefore it will be useless and subsequently ignored by everyone.
     
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  9. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Such is not actually how marketing works. Marketing shifts are in response to what the consumers desire and are searching for, not what new products manufacturers wish to sell. Unless there is a demand for a specific product, manufacturers would have no reason to invest the resources necessary into producing a new product from the group up for the purpose of trying to sell it.

    Manufacturers did not cause the shift in the firearms market, it merely responded to consume desires and adjusted themselves accordingly. That is simply how things work.

    The above qualifying as "best practice" depends upon who is asked, and upon what basis the determination is being made. The so-called "best practice" renders firearms useless for the purpose of immediate self defense if such is a necessity in a given situation.

    And yet the majority of all firearm-related incidents that involve known criminals or mass shooters, have been performed with handguns. It is simply a myth that semi-automatic rifles are becoming the most prevalent firearm of use for either of such purposes, simply because such stories receive the greatest media coverage. Deaths attributed to rifles amount to the lowest number of all firearm-related deaths in the united states, if for no other reason than the simple fact that handguns are much more portable, convenient, and easy to conceal.

    It is still not the fault of a legal owner of a firearm if their property is stolen from their home and used in the commission of a criminal act. The united states justice system simply does not operate in such a manner.

    Both unlikely, and focused on the entirely wrong issues, thus wasting finite resources that could be better utilized elsewhere. One cannot enforce something that cannot be measured or detected, and buybacks are nothing more than political theater to appeal to the idiotic masses who care about presentation more than substance. They wish to feel something is being done, but do not wish to invest the effort necessary to actually do something.

    Perhaps the biggest problem with the citizens of the united states is that the most vocal of the lot are also the most lazy. They do not want substance, they want illusion as it allows them to fool themselves into believing real change is being made, when in truth nothing is being done. They wish to live in a fantasy world, simply because the real world does not conform to their preconceived notions of the world, and they simply cannot accept that.

    Which would require those who wish to legally exercise their constitutional rights, to be directly punished for the actions of those who are devoid of rights. The simple fact is that the majority of all firearm-related violence in the united states is committed by those who cannot legally own firearms, but still possess and use them regardless. It is no difference than a motor vehicle jacker going on a high-speed chase, causing all manner of property damage, even killing bystanders in the process, before finally being apprehended. It is certainly not the fault of the legal owner of the motor vehicle for what happened, so why should they be required to pay the insurance claims for the damage that was done?

    Meaning more political theater that is devoid of actual substance.
     
  10. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    So what happens then when the gun owners who voted for it find out that it costs an extra $100 to buy a gun from Uncle Bob, and that no one is even enforcing the law?
     
  11. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    No one ever went from where the US is now to where those countries are now. It's not a valid comparison.
     
  12. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Americans, overwhelmingly, support universal background checks without any loopholes. If that makes a few folks pissy, that's unfortunate.
     
  13. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The law cannot be enforced and so the law will not be followed.
    The anti-gun left will then start screaming for universal registration.
    No one wonders why they want that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  14. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think if they knew that it would cost an extra $100 to buy that gun from Uncle Bob they'd still want it? If the proponents were actually honest and explained that the law is unenforceable without registration they'd still be for it? Do you think that if the proponents were honest and explained that criminals would simply use straw purchases, illegal street sales and theft to get guns that they'd still support it?
     
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The only reason for the support is because those who do support it, do not have any clue as to what the real cost of such a proposal truly is. They are not aware of either the monetary cost, or the societal cost, because those presenting the question deliberately leave them in the dark.
     
  16. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    If that is what you need to swallow, so be it.

    Some bleat that we are impotent when it comes to confronting the obscene level of firearm slaughter in the US.

    Others deem it necessary to take measures to defend ourselves against it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  17. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    And yet nothing can be done, because ultimately the true problem is being ignored entirely. It is not a matter of the implement, but rather the individual. It is people who are the problem in need of being addressed, not the inanimate object they may utilize. No amount of stubborn denial is going to change that fact. A person does not become a mass murderer simply because they can pick up a firearm and possess the physical means to engage in the act of mass murder, it simply does not work that way. Focusing on the firearm is nothing more than a scapegoat for those who do not wish to tell the public that they are the problem in need of being fixed, and for those who do not wish to be told that they are the problem.
     
  18. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Please explain how a UBC can be enforced without registration, or how it can be effective with options like straw purchases, theft and illegal street sales still available to criminals.
     
  19. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Other advanced nations (that also have "individuals") do not experience the relentless, obscene level of firearm slaughter of the US. American "individuals" are not uniquely disposed to frequently shoot large numbers of people to death, and if Americans wish to redress the permissiveness in our laws by sensible measures, it is certainly worth a try.

    Those who wring their hands and whine, "Do nothing! We are helpless!" should allow the majority who are not incorrigibly defeatist to have a try.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  20. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Please explain how a UBC can be enforced without registration, or how it can be effective with options like straw purchases, theft and illegal street sales still available to criminals.

    Who is saying "do nothing"?
     
  21. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Some prefer lawlessness because no law prevents all violations of it. Others believe that sensible laws make for a better society.

    Why not give the democratic will a chance, despite the special interests?
     
  22. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the same manner of those who wring their hands and whine, "Ban firearms or we are helpless!"
     
  23. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because we don't run by mob rule.
     
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  24. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Because the mob is stupid and uneducated in gun control effectiveness. In their 2010 report "Summary Of Select Firearm Violence Prevention Strategies", the Department of Justice indicated that without a reduction in straw purchases that a UBC cannot be effective and that without comprehensive firearm registration it cannot be enforced.

    I don't consider the DOJ a "special interest group" but I do consider them to be experts in the field of criminal justice. No one is pleading for lawlessness. That's a straw man. "Sensible" laws should be Constitutional, effective, enforceable and would be enforced. UBCs and nearly everything else the GCAs propose don't meet that criteria.

    Please explain how a UBC can be enforced without registration, or how it can be effective with options like straw purchases, theft and illegal street sales still available to criminals.
     
  25. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I have expressed my support for universal, loophole-free backgrounds checks for gun purchases, as do 9 in 10 Americans, as do most gun owners the last time I checked.

    I hope the democratic will prevails, and understand that there is a small, vocal minority as well as a powerful Washington political lobby opposed to it.

    Meanwhile, progress is being made on a state-by-state basis.
     

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