The Religion of Atheism

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Alter2Ego, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Wow Tecoyah temper temper, just cuz I busted you.

    Here is the oxford again, seems they dont know what atheism is!

    atheism
    /aythi-iz’m/

    noun the belief that God does not exist.

    — DERIVATIVES atheist noun atheistic adjective atheistical adjective.

    — ORIGIN from Greek a- ‘without’ + theos ‘god’.
    http://www.webcitation.org/6Lm3Z4SP7

    How about that I have a link for mine!

    I can see how painful it is for people out here when they get a double dose of reality, and I am sorry that I am the one who delivers it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  2. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    13,200 and 162 likes.

    That's not a very good percentage.
     
  3. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    Wow, you managed to furiously Google to finally find a definition that does not undermine your own nonsense! Funny how that works...you take a position, THEN furiously Google for support for the position. Funny, that's the opposite of how rational people think. This is what religion and divine, authoritative nonsense has done to your brain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  4. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    yeh well thats a great story line but thats not how it works and no I very calmly went to my religion folder and pulled up the link.

    yeh but I wouldnt go so far as to claim the US supreme court and UK supreme court is irrational. I would go so far as to claim there are denialists that are way over the top irrational, and maybe a few of them are here.
     
  5. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    yeh its lonely at the top! :mrgreen:
     
  6. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Oh I noted that, but is it a typo or BS? I found out its purely BS, and when I did find that out he went into a tirade, like what did he expect?
     
  7. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    It seems rahl is wrong again.
    dive dive dive to periscope depth! Take er down scotty!



    Are There Any Atheistic Religions?

    [rahl says no!]

    by Austin Cline
    Updated July 10, 2018
    The term "pagan" applies to a variety of pre-Christian, nature-oriented religious traditions. Pagan religions are typically polytheistic, but it is possible for a person to treat the pagan gods as metaphors and not really existing. This is no different from treating the pagan stories as metaphors rather than real events, something that is even more common. If a pagan doesn’t believe that the gods in their tradition are real, then they will probably be an atheist. Some may eschew this label, but others are comfortable with it and openly identify as pagan atheists (or atheistic pagans).

    Hindu Atheism
    The Sanskrit word nirisvaravada translates at atheism and means disbelief in a creator god. It does not require disbelief in anything else that might be a "god," but for many anything less than a creator isn't a genuine god in the first place. Both the Samkhya and the Mimamsa schools of Hindu philosophy reject the existence of a creator god, making them explicitly atheistic from a Hindu perspective. This doesn't make them naturalistic, but it does make them as atheistic as any belief system, philosophy, or religion from the perspective of religious theists in the West.

    Buddhist Atheism

    Buddhism is widely regarded as an atheistic religion. Buddhist scriptures either do not promote or actively reject the existence of a creator god, the existence of "lesser" gods who are the source of morality and that humans owe any duties to any gods. At the same time, though, these scriptures accept the existence of supernatural beings which might be described as gods. Some Buddhists today believe in the existence of such beings and are theists. Others dismiss these beings and are atheists. Since there is nothing about Buddhism which requires a belief in gods, atheism in Buddhism is easy to maintain.

    Jain Atheism
    For Jains, every soul or spiritual being is worthy of the exact same praise. Because of this, Jains do not worship any "higher" spiritual beings like gods nor do they worship or pay homage to any idols. Jains believe that the universe has always existed and will always exist, so there is no need for any sort of creator god. None of this means that no spiritual beings exist which might be called "gods," however, and thus a Jain might believe in beings which might be considered gods and therefore technically be a theist. From a Western religious perspective, though, they'd all be atheists.

    Confucian and Taoist Atheism
    On a functional level, at least, both Confucianism and Taoism can be considered atheistic. Neither is founded on faith in a creator god like Christianity and Islam are. Neither promotes the existence of such a god, either. Confucian texts describe a "Heaven" which is a transcendent, personal power of some sort. Whether this qualifies as a personal deity or not is a subject of debate, but it seems at least possible for a person to follow Confucian teachings and be an atheist. Basically, the same issue exists for Taoism: belief in some deity may be included, but may not be absolutely required.

    Jewish Atheism

    Judaism is a religion founded upon a belief in a single creator god; it's one of the oldest and earliest forms of monotheism known. Today, however, there are Jews who have rejected belief in this god while retaining attributes of Judaism as possible. In some cases, people have retained very little and call themselves Jews for ethnic reasons. Others retain a great deal of Jewish traditions and call themselves Jews not just from a cultural, but also from a religious perspective. They consider themselves every bit as religious as the Jews who continue to believe in God.

    Christian Atheism
    As a descendant of Judaism, Christianity is also a religion founded upon a belief in a single creator god. Atheism is not just rejected, but considered a sin. There are a few people who consider themselves Christians even though they have rejected belief in the existence of any gods, including the Christian creator god. They argue that they are Christian atheists in the same way that some Jews are also atheists: they are Christian for largely cultural reasons, but continue to maintain some religious observances — just without references to any gods.

    Modern Paranormal Religions & Atheism
    Scientology has little to say on the subject of gods. It "acknowledges" the existence of a single creator god, but doesn't teach anything specific about it and allows members to worship as they see fit. It may thus be possible for a Scientologist to not worship and not believe. Raelians are explicitly and even "militantly" atheist, in the sense that atheism and freedom for atheists are aggressively pursued. Other modern UFO religions, based around belief in aliens rather than supernatural beings like gods, also at least allow for atheism if not openly endorse atheism as more scientific and rational than theism.

    Humanistic, Naturalistic Religions & Atheism
    There are humanistic religious groups today which endorse belief systems that focus on the needs of human beings here and now while rejecting (or at least minimizing) supernatural beliefs generally. A significant percentage of the members of Unitarian Universalist churches are atheists, though these churches also include Christians, pagans, and others. Members of Ethical Culture groups may or may not believe in any gods; some don't even regard Ethical Culture as being a religious group for themselves though it is considered a religion under the law. Religious humanism creates a religious context without gods.


    Atheists believe that religion should be kept out of public places.
    But what if atheistic humanism is a religion, too?


    In their intensifying efforts to reduce the influence of Christianity in the public arena, atheist activists and other secular humanists have become oblivious to an irony: as they suck Christianity out of society, they fill the vacuum with their own faith-based (but nontheistic) religion.

    Yes, you heard that right. Atheism is a religion. While atheistic humanists argue there must be a total separation of church and state, they refuse to admit that their own belief system is, by the actual dictionary definition, religious.1 Correctly defining terms helps expose to the general world the hypocrisy of atheists who chant the mantra of church-state separation.
    https://answersingenesis.org/world-religions/atheism/religion-no-god/

    [no they dont! they go straight to denial!]
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  8. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Now that atheists militantly demand that an atheist is anyone who lacks some level of belief in God they inherited virtually every religion on the planet for the atheists! They are all atheists since most lack 'absolute' belief.:wierdface::roflol:

    Brilliant move!
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  9. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    What Are Secular Religions?

    There are a lot of forms of secularism. They are religions that are humanistic
    (i.e., man is the supreme authority). Here is a list of some of the forms or
    aspects of secular/humanistic religions:

    • Atheism and New Atheism

    • Agnosticism [oh no me too! :eekeyes:]

    • Existentialism


    World Religions and Cults

    • Extraterrestrial Humanism

    • “Nonreligious” Religious Humanism

    • Naturalism

    • Stoicism

    • Materialism

    • Relativism

    • Nazism

    • Hedonism (including perverted sexual expression)

    • Communism

    • Nature Worship

    • Idealism/Dualism

    • Satanism (Church of Satan)

    • Epicureanism (Evolutionism)

    • Modernism

    • Scientism

    • Post-modernism

    • Secular Humanism

    Lovely group!

    For example, a person might identify generally as an atheist and
    hold to a materialistic view of the universe and a relativistic understanding
    of morality.

    Professor Richard Dawkins is a new atheist but also believes in
    aliens/extraterrestrial
    life as a possible explanation for the origin of life on
    earth.
    Bill Nye professes to be an agnostic (he can’t know for certain if God
    exists), but then proceeds to argue from an atheistic perspective (no God
    exists, cf.

    Sometimes these religions have great variations while
    sharing manycommonalities. For example, Hedonism promotes homosexuality
    (e.g., LGBT) and Nazism absolutely opposes them.

    Yet bothshare the same view that man is the supreme authority, and both share an
    evolutionary view of origins, opposing the Bible, looking to bring human
    prosperity, etc.

    Some of these are philosophical aspects that are utilized by each vari-
    ant — like naturalism, materialism, and relativism. Even within the various
    flavors of humanistic religions you can have variations. For example, within
    hedonism (cf., Ecclesiastes 9:7–10) there are two very different forms:


    Secular and Atheist Religions: Overview

    Quantitative Hedonism (get as much as you can for your enjoyment before you die)

    Qualitative Hedonism (enjoy the highest quality of things in life before you die)

    There are even variations within atheism.

    One view presents itself from clas-
    sical atheism — says there is no God(s)
    but refrains from caring what others
    believe, also known as soft atheism.

    Then there is new atheism, which doesn’t
    believe God(s) exists but tries to force this
    view on others, also known as hard atheism.


    Sounds familiar

    You may also notice that some of these religious flavors sometimes cross
    over with the moralistic religions described in World Religions and Cults.
    Why such great variation and yet such similar commonalities
    based on the authority of man?

    But a materialistic/naturalistic [Atheist] worldview causes undeniable problems

    for secular views. If matter is all that exists, then nonmaterial (immaterial)
    things cannot exist.

    There are many things that cannot exist if materialism is correct.

    They include:

    Logic

    Truth

    • Abstractions

    • Propositions

    • Concepts

    • Rights

    • Shame

    Reason

    • Knowledge

    Dignity

    Honor

    Love

    • Sadness

    It would be inconsistent (i.e., a behavioral inconsistency) for a secularist [Atheist]
    to
    appeal to logic, reason, truth, etc., to argue for a secular worldview that says
    immaterial things cannot exist!



    More proof that atheism is a religion after all!
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  10. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Which court decision. Last time You made this silly claim you posted a link to the Cornell Law Reviw which of course isn't a decision. And in fact the decisions mentioned in the article specifically site a belief in a god is a requirement for a religion.

    And then of course when the article proposed a definition of religion you didn't like the definition because it would have excluded athiesm.
     
  11. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    A new low comparing thoughts with imaginary beings. When imaginary beings become neural connections then pigs will fly.

    Better you should cite gravity since science has yet to explain the material origin of gravity.
     
  12. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    So by all your examples a religion can be defined as requiring a supernatural being or a belief in states of human existance that can only be striven for and never achieved.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    nope. it still means the same thing it did on page 1

    a·the·ism
    ˈāTHēˌizəm/
    noun
    noun: atheism
    1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
     
  14. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    atheism means lack of belief in a god or gods. Atheism, by definition, is not a religion. Just like not playing baseball isn't a sport.
     
    Kode likes this.
  15. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    More proof that atheism is a religion after all!


    But a materialistic/naturalistic [Atheist] worldview causes undeniable problems
    for secular views. If matter is all that exists, then nonmaterial (immaterial)
    things cannot exist.

    There are many things that cannot exist if materialism is correct.

    They include:

    Logic

    Truth

    • Abstractions

    • Propositions

    • Concepts

    • Rights

    • Shame

    Reason

    • Knowledge

    Dignity

    Honor

    Love

    • Sadness

    It would be inconsistent (i.e., a behavioral inconsistency) for a secularist [Atheist]
    to
    appeal to logic, reason, truth, etc., to argue for a secular worldview that says
    immaterial things cannot exist!


    No low at all, Just helping atheists gain a deeper understanding of what they are up against if they want to use lackeology to argue lackism.

    nah not at all, the point is several fold. It should be clear to you that you that there is no supernatural being requirement to be classified as a religion.




    but theres so many of them atheists are everywhere!

    World [atheist] Religions and Cults

    • Extraterrestrial Humanism

    • “Nonreligious” Religious Humanism

    • Naturalism

    • Stoicism

    • Materialism

    • Relativism

    • Nazism

    • Hedonism (including perverted sexual expression)

    • Communism

    • Nature Worship

    • Idealism/Dualism

    • Satanism (Church of Satan)

    • Epicureanism (Evolutionism)

    • Modernism

    • Scientism

    • Post-modernism

    • Secular Humanism

    Lovely group!


    I guess not!
    It comes down to 2 avenues.

    Either atheists are delusional and experience all those nonmaterial things like logic and reason ect as shown above or they do not.

    If they do well sorry to say they are delusional, if they dont they cant be human, BUT I will leave that door open just in case atheists want to argue the point.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  16. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Except that all the religions you posted meet my criteria. Read it again in case you didn't understand the first time. All religions include either a supernatural being or a state of human existance that can only be strived for and never obtained.

    And all your so called nonmaterial things are dependent on material things to exist. Of course God is exactly the same, being a creation of the human mind and having no independent existance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  17. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    false, I never included atheism in my definition.

    Oh? and what is your criteria?

    A law review analyses the court decision, it was very informative, just because you dont like the review.

    The court determined that secular humanism is a religion, which secular humanist do you know claims to pray to a God?

    The problem atheists have is the claim supernatural does not exist:


    supernatural
    adjective

    1(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

    I'd say it certainly does and since it does why should anyone consider atheism rational since the only proof atheists accept is material proof and supernatural is nonmaterial?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  18. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    I don't think athiests have to prove the supernatural world doesn't exist. F religion wants to preyend thst it exists it is up to the believers to prove it.

    There is no more need to prove the supernatural doesn't exist than there is to prove that any other of man's fantasy creations exist.

    But I am curious as to the court decision that says secular humanism is a religion. Perhaps you can post a link to the actual decision.
     
  19. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    The appeal was unanimously allowed. Religion should not be confined to faiths involving a supreme deity, since to do so would exclude Buddhism, Jainism and others; and involve the Court in difficult theological territory. Religion could be described as a belief system going beyond sensory perception or scientific data, held by a group of adherents, which claims to explain mankind’s place in the universe, and to teach its adherents how they are to live their lives in conformity with the belief system. On this approach to religion, Scientology was clearly a religion. It followed that as the Church of Scientology held religious services its church is a “place of meeting for religious worship”.

    For judgment, please download: [2013] UKSC 77
    For Court’s press summary, please download: Court’s Press Summary
    For a non-PDF version of the judgment, please visit: BAILII


    US courts tend not to say things as clearly as this but there you have it. Of course the UK has more requirements than the US.

    All that pesky nonmaterial stuff.


    Logic

    Truth

    • Abstractions

    • Propositions

    • Concepts

    • Rights

    • Shame

    Reason

    • Knowledge

    Dignity

    Honor

    Love

    • Sadness


    Listen to the atheists whine!

    A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.


    “Atheism is [the inmate’s] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

    The court decided the inmate’s First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.

    Brian Fahling, senior trial attorney for the American Family Association Center for Law & Policy, called the court’s ruling “a sort of Alice in Wonderland jurisprudence.”

    “Up is down, and atheism, the antithesis of religion, is religion,” said Fahling.

    The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

    Fahling said today’s ruling was “further evidence of the incoherence of Establishment Clause jurisprudence.”

    “It is difficult not to be somewhat jaundiced about our courts when they take clauses especially designed to protect religion from the state and turn them on their head by giving protective cover to a belief system, that, by every known definition other than the courts’ is not a religion, while simultaneously declaring public expressions of true religious faith to be prohibited,” Fahling said.
    http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  20. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    I am a bit confused since the UK decision was on Scientology and the US supreme court case only mentioned secular humanism in a footnote where it gave a list of generally recognized religions that didn't include the normal understanding of a god. That is no way was a ruling saying secular humanism was a religion or that religions did not have to include a god.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  21. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    atheism means lack of belief in a god or gods. Atheism, by definition, is not a religion. Just like not playing baseball isn't a sport.
     
  22. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    still waiting for your explanation
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  23. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Try having any of the things on your list without a material object namely a person. That is in contrast to the religious idea of god which was, is and always will be and created man so is in no way dependent on the existance of man. Understand the difference?
     
  24. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    why? I've repeatedly shown you the definition of atheism, and explained how and why it is not a religion.
     
  25. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    What about this makes it "bullshit"?

    There is one issue in that it depends on what we mean by common. I'm not sure enough people know what 420 means to call it common to English speakers, but I don't think that'll be an important distinction for this discussion. It may be informal or new, but if they use the words and make themselves understood, then what's the problem?

    For instance, the word Jazz was considered slang for some time. The details are a bit blurry, it may have meant sperm or sex (at a time when those were not acceptable conversation topics in polite society) but it was certainly considered slang. Yet as it made its way into common usage, it stopped being slang and received the meaning we have today.
    I don't think these rulings affect the language as a whole (except insofar as they are important examples of usage), I think they specify the precising definitions which are used within the legal framework. You seem to keep coming back to the idea that I'm somehow at odds with the use in courts or philosophy or whatnot, when actually, they are falling nicely into the structure I have suggested.
    What other aspect is there of the meaning of a word? Let's say we were able to magically change the usage of a word, so that by the push of a button, everyone started using the word "uggbugg" in the place of "banana". Wouldn't the meaning of uggbugg be exactly the (former) meaning of banana? It seems to me that if there is some aspect of a word which does not change with the usage, then that aspect isn't really the meaning.
    I actually did let it slide. Well, not even let it slide, I acknowledge that you are able to use the definition you used (indeed, that would be a stipulative definition, which I defend). After that, I spent my time trying to figure out what your definition actually meant and discussing the effects of using that definition.

    However, I also used our confusion over the word universal as an example of various resolutions to our disagreement. Your approach to the word religion was to start a thread about it, detailing a "universal" definition which "should be used going forward". My approach is to provide as much of a definition as is needed on an individual basis within each discussion. When we disagreed on the use of the word universal, we seem both to have used my approach (and indeed, starting a thread defining "universal" would have been out of place in the religion forum).

    It seems to me that your approach only allows for one definition (if you want to resolve the definition of "religion" by boiling everything down into definition #1, then presumably you would want to do the same to the word "universal"). You have provided proof that one can use universal to mean "most" (in theory, I disagree, but I think that's a less interesting disagreement, so I'm willing to ignore it for the sake of argument) but if you want to boil it down to one definition, then you would have to show that 95% of usage uses your meaning.
     

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