The Remorseful: Are right-wingers who spread anti-vaxer propaganda shooting themselves in the foot?

.....as it should be!

 

Wrong!!!! It is approved for emergency use. It is NOT experimental! Forcing experimental vaccines would be a violation of the Nuremberg Code.
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-cont...ston-methodist-lawsuit-order-of-dismissal.pdf

Now look... I'll consider the fact that you're new here. But you need to start by reading my sig.

 

What is presumptive about it?

 

1 it isn’t just right wingers, ive met plenty of non vaxxed liberals that are nervous about taking it (most of them are not anti mask though)

2 why does it feel like you are implying the media is responsible for everyone? I’ve never seen right wing news discourage taking the vaccine. What I hear them usually have a problem with is vaccine shaming

3 people should watch local news every now and then where it’s more fact based and less partisan spoonfeeding of stuff people wanna hear

4 I chose to take the vaccine but I’m not gonna lie, I am scared of the long term effects because they are 100% unknown

 

The risk for the vaccines is RIDICULOUSLY small. The deaths by blood clots are like 0.0006% of the vaccinated people... (and is only so, for the AstraZeneca, not even approved here, and in a smaller degree for the J&J; almost unheard of for the Pfizer and the Moderna) while the virus kills at least 1% to 2% of people (not to forget the 20-30% who survive but come out of it with permanent organ damage to the heart, lungs, brain, kidneys, and beta pancreatic cells - it's incredible how people keep thinking that the death toll is all that this nasty virus causes ), and the virus causes blood clots in a freaking 38% of people, hundreds of thousand times more than what the vaccines cause. And these IDIOTS still think the vaccine is riskier than the virus??? Don't they teach math in the schools these people hopefully attended??? The risk of blood clots with these vaccines is smaller than the same risk for birth control pills, smoking, and simply traveling by airplane (and infinitely smaller than the coagulation risk the virus itself causes).

Yes, I'm not for mandates; people should make their own decisions... but it doesn't mean that they aren't STUPID if they choose to decline the vaccines. There aren't too many medications or vaccines known to men that are more favorable in terms of risks/benefits balance (given the huge benefits of stopping a darn dangerous virus), than the Pfizer and Moderna Covid-19 vaccines. Declining them is, sorry, a HUGE proof of PROFOUND stupidity. It's as simple as that. J&J? It's fine in the absence of alternatives, but the Pfizer and Moderna are clearly better.

mRNA vaccines is the technology of the present and future (with a bright future for vaccines against other infectious agents, and cancer). Viral vector, protein subunit, inactivated virus, etc., are the technologies of the past. mRNA vaccines are a HUGE advancement, and those who don't want to benefit from this FABULOUS 21st century technology are dumb and misinformed.

By now it's ABUNDANTLY clear that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are EXTREMELY effective and EXTREMELY safe, after they've been given to hundreds of millions.

People who don't see it are deaf and blind. Period, full stop. I'm done being nice to those idiots.

 

Do you know that the mRNA vaccines degrade and are eliminated from the body in 8 hours?

 

You need me to explain the difference between the topic of a thread and sidenotes? Obviously you're new to these forums, aren't you? You'll get the hang of it....

 

how would that not be presumptuous? People dying of blood clots because they never took the vaccine? Get out of dodge

 

The FDA announced yesterday that they are reallocating human resources to finish up the analyses and get the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines fully approved in a matter of weeks.

 

Probably. Do you disagree with the two points at the beginning of the OP?

It's as if you didn't read them.

 

Pray tell, what is the percentage of deaths by blood clots in people who took the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines? (Do not include AstraZeneca stats there, please; it's not even approved here).

Then, pray tell, what is the percentage of deaths by blood clots (disseminated intravascular coagulation, pulmonary embolism, micro-embolism in the kidneys, etc.) caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus itself?

You'll be surprised with the HUGE advantage of the vaccines in this regard.

 

I never said it wasn’t a small percentage. In fact I recall me saying “very very very few”. The fact he called me a propagandist is what made me go on the defensive. Those are facts, not propaganda!

 

Irrelevant facts, when people only highlight the issues with the vaccines, forgetting about the issues with the virus itself and their percentages.
Vaccine coagulation issues: about 0.0006% if you consider AstraZeneca, much less for Pfizer and Moderna.
Virus coagulation issues: 38%.

 

Huh? What the hell do you think Covid 19 produces? Blood clots!

Or are you saying that it's presumptive that there are people .... thousands of people.... who have died because they didn't take the vaccine?

Again I ask: what is presumptive about it?

Be specific!

 

Again I also said I was not against vaccinations. I said that I support individual choices because if they are prone to blood clots it stands to reason the denial of the vaccine. I support an individuals choice for or against it. I won’t and NEVER WILL support shaming for either choice.

 

One of many symptoms. That doesn’t mean people dying of merely blood clots is regretting a vaccine that has killed people for that sole reason

 

So you think that three people dying of blood clots produced by the vaccine (maybe produced by the vaccine) is reason enough not to get vaccinated... but thousands dying of blood clots produced by Covid 19 on people who refused to take the vaccine is not a factor worth comparing it to.

Of course that's propaganda!!

 

No!!!!!!! That was the cause of the blood clots. It’s no maybe. Read the article I posted or would you like me to post it again!!!!

over 6k claims of death and 3 were confirmed

and no that’s not propaganda

 

The opposite is also true. One is going to question whether they really took the right position when one of their family members had to go to the hospital because their kidneys shut down after receiving the second dose of the vaccine.

 

"can we agree that people who don't take the vaccine are more likely to catch Covid?"
No. the CDC says "A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others." Which is another way of saying they think it does that, but arent sure. At this point, what we can honestly say is that people who don't take the vaccine are probably more likely to catch Covid.

So far, the only thing we know the vaccines do for certain is reduce the symptoms of covid and the damage covid does to the body while the immune system does its work, increasing survival rates and decreasing hospitalizations.

 

No. Even if they are prone to blood clots, the virus is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more dangerous for blood clots than the vaccines.
There is NO contra-indication for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in people who are prone to blood clots (I'd avoid the AstraZeneca and even the J%J in that case, but not the Pfizer and the Moderna).
Yes, I support an individual's choice... which doesn't mean that the individual is not PROFOUNDLY STUPID if he declines the vaccine.
Look, as a physician I educate my patients and let them make their choice. If they decline it, I'll lament it but won't shame them. I'll act professionally and respectfully.
But over here, in this anonymous forum, yes, I'm done being nice to the IDIOTS who think that the vaccine is riskier than the virus.
They are prime candidates for the Darwin Award; that's what they are.
I do vent here the frustrations I get out there when people decline the vaccine, which is the product of incredible misunderstanding of the stats, conspiracy theories, plain lies from anti-vaxxers, and idiotic politicizing of the issue (the SARS-CoV-2 couldn't care less for politics). I do my best to educate people but if they hear from me in one visit but are bombarded for months with partisan misinformation and conspiracy theories, sometimes my advice gets lost in the middle of all that. Prejudices are very ingrained. Physician advice doesn't always prevail. If our advise always prevailed, we wouldn't have obesity in this country, and 40% of Americans are obese.
It's regrettable. We Americans are a very stupid people. Completely different in this regard from the Japanese and South Koreans, for example.

 

As I said in my first post, you have too much to learn about Covid and vaccines.

No!!!! Blood clots aren't just a "symptom" . They are one of the most (not sure if the most) common causes of death in Covid patients. In any case faaaaar more than three people have died of blood clots because they didn't take the vaccine. There is ZERO presumption in that.

 

I only had to read the first sentence to know you’re a partisan hack

 

One, what you are saying in your first paragraph is only true of the Delta variant. Before it came around, the vaccines dramatically decreased the number of infections and saved countless lives. But yes, because IDIOTS declined the vaccine, the transmission continued and then we got the variants.

Your second paragraph that I highlighted, that's a VERY successful vaccine. The point is to reduce the symptoms and the damage Covid does to the body, which is SUBSTANTIAL even in survivors. Before Pfizer and Moderna outperformed all expectations achieving an efficacy rate of 95% against the ancestral strain infections and 100% against hospitalizations and death, we came to expect this performance, always. To begin with, we had never dreamed of such a high efficacy. We thought we'd be lucky with 70%. So now with the Delta, the vaccine's efficacy has dropped, but it still avoids hospitalizations and deaths, which is the point of other viral vaccines like the flu shot.

And it's just a matter of time for the mRNA vaccine makers to redo batches tuned into the Delta variant's changed spike protein.

We'll have boosters tailored to the Delta.

The problem is, we have to convince people to take them. I'm not optimist in this regard, which is why the virus will continue to mutate and will become endemic.

Before the variants hit, we had two 95% efficacious vaccines. If our entirely population had accepted them, we'd have conquered this thing. It is thanks to the idiotic deniers and decliners that we are seeing the lingering of the pandemic.

 

Pray tell, what party do I represent????
So, my first sentence which is factual and based on 40 years of exercise of Medicine and thousands of papers read (and a couple of hundred authored by myself), including some 500 on Covid-19, and including treating Covid-19 patients for over one year, makes you think I'm a partisan hack???