The socialist state

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Jackster, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    We are not socialist democracies. Stop those lies.
     
  2. creation

    creation New Member

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    Yes but we are not talking about Marx here, we are discussing the concept of socialism.
     
  3. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    This is like pulling teeth to understand exactly what we'll get and wont get. So lets focus on the basic for now, housing -

    Do we destroy all houses, buildings and start again? Steal the homes that other people built or allow them to keep them?
    You mention families get permanent accommodations, what about singles and do you give preference to families?
    Who builds the new houses for everyone? I cant see many people choosing to be labor hard when they can be for example full time online gamers, tennis, golf, basketballers ect for work.
     
  4. blackharvest216

    blackharvest216 Banned

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    well in america we already have 5 times more vacant houses than homeless, so its a non issue, we just give them houses

    http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/more_vacant_homes_than_homeless_in_us_20111231
     
  5. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    Thats with lots of banks foreclosing, but ok lets assume we stole vacant houses off their owners and gave them away. Wouldnt there still be housing inequality with some people having mansions, some in the ghettos, some in remote rural areas, some with views, so run down? How do you propose make that equal for all?
     
  6. blackharvest216

    blackharvest216 Banned

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    the ghettos would be considered a pestilence and would be bulldozed and either rebuilt as decent housing or changed too somekind of park, the mansions would most likely stay, and would be occupied by many people if necessary. the more lavish ones likely converted too hotels or even museums, you wouldn't own it, even if you managed too find a mansions lets say, in a far away hilltop community somewhere, you could find a big house and live alone because nobody wants to live there but you, you still would not own the house and could be forced out at any time through a democratically chosen process, if they "needed" you too leave for whatever reason, they might give you 6 months too leave, or they might give you 6 years, its up for them (and you to a small degree) too decide
     
  7. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    Why would ghettos be considered a pestilence? Is the size or density thats a problem or that people dont look after them?

    Yeah i get we wouldnt own anything, so you're saying our overlords can decide at any time to add more people to your house and even remove you from that housing. That doesnt sound like permanent accommodation you mentioned earlier and Im not sure how that creates housing equality. Clearly some places will be in better neighborhoods, have larger/better facilitues such as pools, fireplaces, garages, tennis courts and the likes.

    Who builds these new houses in the ghettos? As i said earlier 'I cant see many people choosing to be labor hard when they can be for example full time online gamers, tennis, golf, basketballers ect for work'
     
  8. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Personally I would much rather create something than play games, and when I was younger I really enjoyed hard labour. Not everyone thinks sitting on their backside playing games or lying in the sun on a yacht is utopia. Especially people with a brain.
     
  9. blackharvest216

    blackharvest216 Banned

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    ever been too one, and i mean a real one? they're cockroach and rat infested nightmares peices of the walls and ceilings falling apart, some one the larger ones have heating systems that are centuries old spewing thick black tar like smoke in the air, the waters not even safe too drink

    you can be one of the overlords if that helps? lol again what would be the point if there is already 5 times as many vacant houses as homeless people, housing equality doesn't mean everyone gets the same exact cookie cutter house if thats what you think it means
    how does capitalism solve housing inequality it doesn't and it doesn't intend too. lets look at some major mansions

    this is the hearst mansion in california
    [​IMG]
    this is a series of houses for 8 families in baltimore
    [​IMG]

    Is this the housing equality capitalism brings us?that mansion requires a series of servants to maintain it and the grounds, yet their servants homes likely resemble those in the baltimore picture. Now if all the servants got together they could live there and maintian the house and the grounds in the same way, they could keep it, but if nobody maintains it however then it would simply fall apart. nobody would bulldoze it unless it became a blight

    well whats your definition of "hard work" you mean like the work of an obese middle aged american, or the work of a starving sweatshop worker? In order for the rest of the world to live like the average american we would require 5 whole planets worth of resources. You have a nice life mostly because of exploitation of labor in 3rd world and developing world.

    also people want to be basketball players because its an easy way to be a millionaire and make alot of money, people want too design video games because it would be the best way too make money for them, when money is taken out of the equation, and lets say replaced with some kind of labor credit then people wouldn't want to do those things
     
  10. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    Are you saying Roger Federer is a lazy lay about? Thats the thing with socialism isnt it, we dont need a brain or to use it, we all get the same. A giant govt nipple just hanging there when you need or want something.


    Hell no, why would i want to? Ive seen enough pics and videos to get an idea however, i could never work out why most wouldnt do a little maintenance and have a little pride in the housing they're given or rented compared to those who worked hard to privately own theirs. Just kidding, i know exactly why.....but highly doubt you do.

    If i were the overlord i tell you get out there and voluntarily trade with others to help your own sorry self and give you the freedom to enjoy the fruits of that. But this isnt really about my overlordship its about the socialist one.

    So you're saying capitalism has given the US an abundance of housing already, but whats needed is socialism to give equality that we've just established in fact doesnt do that at all. So no equality of housing, no privacy and permanency. Not very appealing.
    .



    Could be partly capitalism, could be partly the cronyism that governments sells us out for. The same overlords who wouldnt sell us out if would only just give them all the ownership of property along with our rights.

    You understand capitalist countries rarely have staving workers in sweatshops right? We need to look towards socialist countries to find them since capitalist countries have plenty of food. As far as exploitation goes, there is no force on our behalf. Do you think they'd prefer we take our business and offer it to another country?

    I hardly think its an easy way to become a millionaire. Anyway i thought socialism was about being free to do what you love? Are you saying the overlords will dictate what work people have to do?
     
  11. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    When you start off with an unproven and false premise, you're going to end up with garbage. Not even Sanders, who promotes social programs, is for then end of capitalism. This particular opine goes from the false to the absolute irrational in seconds.
     
  12. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    Nothing false about it, socialism is owning the means of productions. Some don't believe in getting there by revolution some are gradualists, the end goal is the same. Cloward and Piven strategy of crushing capitalism under the welfare state is a gradualist strategy. Anyway I'm asking about how the socialist state will work, what it'll look like and how it effects us once that is achieved.
     
  13. blackharvest216

    blackharvest216 Banned

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    no I dont? does it have something too do with your racist sig?
     
  14. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  15. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Speaking up as a Brown man, that's not a racist sig . . . that's a quote taken from a known White hating racist, and it's quoted to make the point that Whites inside the United States of America ARE under attack from certain leftist groups. What's interesting is the presumption that commenting on a racist plan of attack . . . makes one a racist.
     
  16. BoDiddly

    BoDiddly Member

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    It blows my mind how many people know nothing about Marx and how his ideas, nor how those ideas have developed and changed by the critical theorist.

    Yes over 150 years of critical human thought has led to result in the goals of massive amounts of drugs and over populated golf courses. :roll::roll::roll:
     
  17. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    Nice dodge but you have not proven your initial claim: "With so many people here championing the socialist state and end to capitalism" I haven't seen anyone here or outside of here, "championing for a social state". I have seen people whom are for cleaning up the excesses of capitalism, but not its abolition. Furthermore, Cloward–Piven strategy which you cling to and has been described as "a reactionary paranoid fantasy ..." which was born amidst the southern backlash against social programs in the mid 1960's and was as hare-brained back then as it is now.
     
  18. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    Thats right and those people have been kind enough to answer my questions. You'd have to blind to not see the anti-capitalists on this site.
     
  19. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    I love capitalism and profit. They have been very good to me. However, I am still against the excess, immorality and criminality that is wall street and the banking cartels. I also believe in paying my fair share of taxes...especially for concepts I believe in such as charity, forbearance, mercy and benevolence. War I am against.
     
  20. CausalityBreakdown

    CausalityBreakdown Banned at Members Request

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    Actually, Capitalism is a system under which the bourgeoisie exploit labor and own the means of production, whereas in Socialism, the government is designed to force the means of production from the ownership of the wealthy to the ownership of the workers. In communism, there is no government, and the means of production belong to the workers.
     
  21. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    Likewise, im strongly against monopolies and cartels. Which we shouldnt get if government performs its duties in keeping markets clean and competitive. Im also approve of you voluntarily paying as much as you like to govt or anyone else for your favored concepts. Im for being aware and vigilantly protecting the platform from which our first world rise was based around: the class liberal concepts of free markets free from coercion, min govt, reducing over burdensome regulations and legislation where possible, min tax, personal responsibility and liberty. It might surprise im also for the safety net the way of a guaranteed small basic wage, we people are part of the market and also need to be protected from coercion.
     
  22. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    My point is, being politically liberal (or progressive) does NOT always mean being anti-capitalist and/or pro socialism.
     
  23. NothingSacred

    NothingSacred Active Member

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    WOW! You are a RETARD! :roflol:
     
  24. NothingSacred

    NothingSacred Active Member

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    In reality, 95% of everything would remain as it is, with private businesses doing almost everything in a market justr as free, maybe freer than now. Just that the priorities would change, banks would be tightly regulated and progressive taxes with the richer paying more would pool money to pay for eduction, health care, infrastructure etc. political donations should no longer be considered "speech", but instead they should be a CRIME and people should be jailed for it In other words common sense would rule and 0.01% of the population would no longer run everything for their benefit. I don't have a yacht now, and I wouldn't give a crap if it would mean that NOBODY would have a yacht EVER.
     

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