The stunning rise of costly obesity in America

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by LafayetteBis, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I like that comment and thank-you!

    Because we all too often forget how some politicians use and abuse "public commentary" to support the market-activity of a sector (or maybe only one company) that contributed to their election. (Or the way a military-service uncommonly shows up at a public holiday event.)

    We have got to get governance back into the hands of the electorate. Moreover, especially with an electorate that votes at its convenience. Meaning, I know why some countries make voting an obligation. Because, when it comes to getting elected, a candidate is treated with "product marketing". And such does not entice many voters who look for more "content-than-razzpizzaz".

    Americans are hooked to the BoobTube by means of a mental-lifeline. (They spend more time watching the TV than any other nation - around 70 hours per week.) That's no different from any other developed nation. I've lived in several including the US, and TV stations are all commercialized and therefore they thrive (or not) based upon commercials.

    But, what we have failed to understand in the US is that a public-candidate is not "marketed" because they are not objects to be purchased. OR, ARE THEY!?!

    And, thus, to my mind, how they come across on TV-commercials matters fundamentally. Especially the photo of proud-father-with-his-brood bit. The typical American family, right?

    And yet the essence of politics is or should be not the "evident view" of the candidate; but their underlying political philosophy. Are we-the-sheeple getting on TV "political content"? Or, quite simply "the dramatized TV-method employed to get elected". There are PLENTY of "political-consultants" who make their money from this service - largely because they have studied the method and they know best "what messaging works wherever".

    So, it should be a good service to show what are the essential points of "getting-elected":From here: American Government - Voters and Voter Behavior

    Key extract, I suggest:
    The above describes a W-I-D-E RANGE of factors key to getting elected. Or, at least, getting sufficient attention to be considered.

    I am no specialist in the matter, so I'll leave it there ...


     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  2. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, and I suggest that we were once a country that fed itself in much the same way. But, we grew out of it as soon as the Agricultural Age turned into the Industrial Age. Which is when large populations shifted from rural-communities to large-cities (where the jobs were).

    I suspect that "self-prepared food" gave way to the less beneficial "whatever-will-sell food". Because they think (1) anything from elsewhere is likely to be more interesting than (2) the "family table as prepared by my mother"!

    I saw this happen in Europe and particularly France. As of the 1980s, the common nourriture started shifting from "what their parents ate and children learned to eat" to "Whatever the boob-tube showed them was "the in food to eat". Which changed also over time. Whatever works in the US is, within months, copy-catted here in France. (One can still eat well in France, but the price at these restaurants serving good food is really more expensive.)

    Whilst obesity blossoms amongst the French population. 'Tis a shame, really ...
     
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  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, that is one of they key issues, corporations are controlling or government vs the people anymore
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yep, I remember when the food pyramid came out, everything changed, we ate more often with more snacking and such, switched to margarine, low fat everything, more of a vegetarian diet with lots of pasta (and breakfast cereal, us kids loved that part), even the meat had to be lean, everyone feared heart disease, fat and protein are more satiating, when you eat low fat, lower protein, you get hungrier more often - thus snack more - and as we are finding now a big part of the issue is the hormonal changes with this type of diet, mainly higher insulin which encourages fat storage and prevents the burning of body fat as well as many other issues in the body, constant eating of high carb foods is not natural, especially drinking sugar filled pop or fruit juice all day long

    before that, when I was young, we ate mostly meat, potatoes and a vegetable, eggs for breakfast, we had three meals a day and maybe some nights popcorn with butter, but no real snacking other then that - all home cooked, eating out was rare (we did sometimes get home cooked pie, cake for desert, or home made candy around Christmas)
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    50% of it is the low protein/low fat thing, the other 50% is movement. as in, they do considerably more of it.
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    So much wrong with this.

    1) so what if fat and protein are 'more satiating'? so is a deep fried chocolate icecream sandwich, but that doesn't make it a reasonable choice.
    2) yes, of course you'll be hungrier on rice and vegetables .. duh. why is that a problem again? we regard hunger as a bad thing .. which must be 'fixed' immediately. hunger is NORMAL. it's absolutely natural to be just satiated for maybe an hour or two after a meal, with the rest of our sleeping and waking hours spent in the company of an appetite.
    3) the body will stop burning fat and mess with the endocrine system if you STOP MOVING. it's not determined primarily by diet, it's determined by exercise. only the most extreme diet is going to impact the endocrine system to the same degree that lack of movement does.
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Not many posters talking about the dramatic change in levels of exercise in the past 50 years.

    The primary driver of obesity.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not true, but many believe that, people actually exercise more today then back then - we even see fat people that work hard, high carbs will catch up with people, the body can only high levels of insulin for so long

    but yes, high carbs and a sedentary life do not go together well
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I think you must be joking. Are you joking?

    Activity levels have PLUMMUTED over the past 100 years. Every single thing we did 100 years ago required far more physical activity than it does today. Even sitting down using a sewing machine meant pushing a treadle. Doing laundry required vast amounts of labour. Dishes were washed by hand, at least 3 x a day, standing up. We walked to our local store for milk and bread .. then carried it back home. Etc etc etc.

    Again, carbs are ONLY a problem in the sedentary. And ONLY if they're processed carbs.
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was referring to actual exercise... but yes, if we are just talking activity levels, many especially with desk jobs have lower activity levels today then in the past

    but as we are seeing fat construction workers, babies, little children, ect.... , it's more then just activity levels, it's the high carbs and too frequent eating\drinking of carbs though out the day, that is causing so much metabolic disease and obesity in this country

    every where the American Corporate diet goes, Obesity and metabolic disease soon follows
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    excessive carbs and too frequent carbs are a issue, and not just in the sedentary

    we can see that high insulin has an effect on the body storing fat and refusing to burn it, through seeing type 1 diabetics that inject insulin to the same site over and over

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1. never said eating fat with lots of sugar is healthy, that high carb snack is usually made with high sugar and bad fats - which is not healthy - we seem to agree there

    2. the problem with being hungry every couple of hours is you eat every couple of hours and each time you eat or drink carbs you raise your insulin, this keeps yourself in fat storage mode vs fat burning mode

    3. nope, you can move all you want, but if you have constant high insulin, your body is gonna have a hard time burning fat for fuel

    exercise is healthy for sure, but diet plays a much bigger role in burning fat due to the way insulin and other hormones work
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, but so?

    Where is the health-service that could help people (from the get-go) to overcome such flagrant obesity without exacting $200 per visit? Which the American poor are quite unlikely to spend ... and why obesity is so evidently common in the US!

    It has become a nation-wide plague ... !
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    once you reach a maintenance weight, you do have more flexibility in your diet, but trying to tell obese people to just eat high carbs all day and exercise more is not going to help them in the long run

    a high carb diet also increases appetite as it reduces satiety, that as well as the addiction to sugar

    the high carb\low fat diet with lots of processed foods with high sugar is what is causing the obesity epidemic
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks! That is an element that is not particularly stressed in the debate so far.

    And I find it makes one helluva-lotta good-sense! Americans must learn how to eat ... !
     
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  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    a good video on the issue

    "Obesity & Diabetes Explained: The Overflow Phenomenon"

     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From here: Socioeconomics and Obesity – The State of Obesity
    As I NEVER stop repeating on this Debate Forum - Healthcare and Tertiary Education MUST be offered free, gratis and for nothing if we are going to improve the lives of those below a certain level of Income. And to my mind these are the two level criterias:
    *Below the average Family Income Level in the US (which is $60K)
    *Poverty Threshold level of $25K for a family of four.

    It is absolutely necessary that those below the PT level of $25K/year be assisted urgently. They are in dire need of both state&Federal-funded Healthcare and Tertiary Education - first to live decently, but also to assure that their children do not become like them living below the Poverty Threshold. (Today, living below the Poverty Threshold is inherited!)

    Above that level, any Social Assistance can be applied family by-family according to a national set of need-criterias (necessity, age, number of children, etc.)

    Look, boyz-'n-'girlz, IT CAN BE DONE! Because Europe has been doing it for more than thirty-years. (And so?)

    And so the lifespan here in Europe is four-years-longer than in the US! And the EU is graduating more kids "out of poverty" and into a normal life-style ... !
     
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why don't we teach them that in High School?

    It doesn't take six-months to get that rule through some pretty-thick high-schooler heads who get most of their silly notions off the Boob-Tube ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  19. Doug_yvr

    Doug_yvr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's simply not true. Science doesn't support it. The process of breaking carbs down into glucose and storing surplus as fat is not disputable.
     
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  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    100% agree, but sadly cause the government has been pushing high carb\low fat diet for almost 40 years, the schools have to go by government guidelines and teach things like the food pyramid, which stated that most of your dietary calories should come from grains - this dietary guidelines are changing a little this September in the USA, but change is slow, the government does not want to admit they were wrong

    doctors are the same, but some are starting to change too and buck the system as they see the effects on their own patients

    this was what I was taught in school as were almost all American children, so sad

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In this fast paced and uncaring world, many folks either don't have the time or the know-how to make a healthy dinner. Others, simply cannot afford to purchase the most healthy foods that don't require much cooking knowledge. It's much cheaper to buy pasta and ground meat to make for dinner.
     
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  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, I never used a slow cooker until i went low carb and started to eat more meat, great way to make tougher inexpensive meat taste great, and it is surprisingly easy and hard to mess up and of course eggs are another cheaper item that has many ways to cook and are easy - I mainly buy my non-starchy vegetables frozen in big bags other then green lettuce and red and green peppers, that kinda thing
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  23. Doug_yvr

    Doug_yvr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is a problem. The fact that quite often pop is cheaper than bottled water doesn't help at all.
     
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  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You are still very much mistaken. You have bad and dangerous information.

    1) we're talking about raw carbs - brown rice, whole grains, pulses, lentils, etc. we're NOT talking about additives.

    2) no, the problem is people eating the minute they feel hunger. how can you not see the difference?

    3) WRONG ... movement is absolutely key. Movement is the PRIMARY driver of the metabolism - and the metabolism is what powers the endocrine system. Choosing a dangerous diet just so you can avoid exercise is missing the point entirely. What you're doing is trying to find a chemical fix to subvert that process. It's a cheat .. and it'll kill you.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Why would you buy either?
     

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