The swiss federation, the most democratic country of the world ?

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by VotreAltesse, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hello,

    Swiss is probably one of the most exceptionnal country the world ever knew. For instance, it's probably one of the only one country who had many ethnic group inside it and stay peacefull without having an ethnic group dominating. For instance Russia is a multi ethnic country, but globally, the slaves dominate it all, the city of Belgium* is half french half dutch (okay, not exactly dutch) but have many troubles to stay united.
    French, italian, german live well together in Swiss without any dominating the other and it make swiss truly exceptionnal.

    Swiss have a long history of tolerance attracting persecuted intellectual of the whole europe as for instance Rousseau or Einstein.

    Why do I call the swiss federation the most democratic country of the world ? It's because the switzerland have something truly exceptionnal called popular initiative. At the opposite of the USA, it exist both at the local scale than to the federal one.
    It means that the citizens of swiss can directly impact their future without having to wait that their elites want to do it.
    Swiss are so a truly responsible of their own people, indenpendant people.

    The problem of most democracies is that an election is just a way to give up all your power to a governement for many years, and you have to wait the end of the mandate to be able to give your opinion again.

    *got the joke ?
     
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Switzerland is exceptional. The only way I can think to replicate it's success is to use Swiss people.
     
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  3. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can't replicate another country model. The cultural differences between european countries are huge and european and american culture became poorly related.

    However, you can get inspiration from other countries and swiss is a damn inspiration.

    I would probably open a new topic too about Athene and stochocratia.
     
  4. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well that was my point...I was joking.

    The fact is, you can't replicate Switzerland because it requires Swiss, with their own specific culture. Its why Italians break their own traffic laws and Germans obey theirs; it's a deep culture thing.

    It's why Norway is Norway and Venezuela is...Venezuela even though they both have oil.
     
  5. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes by the way. What I mean is that you can still use some country mechanism as inspiration but you don't have to copy it. Democracy with elections, and despite their different cultures, many countries copied it finally.
     
  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    But the results vary.
     
  7. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By the way, but a people without any audacity will in the end disappear. Democracy was a risk first, but a worthy one.
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member

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    Yes, probably. Because of its federalism, dividing power amongst its various provinces, and because of its small size.
    And, not to forget, also because of its protectionism, it doesn't let just anyone come in and join the club. Especially when it comes to its neighbor to the South, which for all intents and purposes has a generally lower standard of living.

    Of course Switzerland can afford to be small because it is protected by its bigger neighbors on all sides and has historically served as a buffer state.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  9. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Small, yes and no. It's not monaco either. It's roughly the size of austria.

    Furthermore, during History, Swiss was not protected by it's bigger neighbours but rather threatened. Napoleon was the last one to successfully invade swiss and swiss always had a good army. Furthermore, Swiss have a huge advantage : mountains, a lot of mountains. Swiss is hardly invadable for in the end few interest. It's not a huge food producer, and if they have some good industries, they're often willing to trade.
     
  10. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thread. Perhaps the Swiss are exceptional because they don't allow immigration?
     
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  11. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    30 % of swiss people have at least one parent who is a migrant or are a migrant. I'm not sure however they have low standarts as every country.

    Did you ever heard of all chinese migrants in France or UK putting the mess ? No. Because they don't even if they're numberous. The problem of Europe is not immigration but a civilization conflict between secular christian europe and islam.
     
  12. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How many Syrian refugees has Switzerland granted permanent residency to? How many Turks?
     
  13. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I honnestly don't know. Anyway, it's not really the topic. Anyway, my opinion about refugees is that they should be helped, but helped by helping them to go to some other muslims countries.
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member

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    This may be misleading. A lot of them, for example in Italy near the border, hold dual nationality. So parents are able to live in Italy, making a temporary move for a while, and pass on that dual nationality to their child. Which is obviously a valuable thing. In other cases, Germans who move to Switzerland already have connections in the financial industry, and those employer sponsorships are not as easy to get as they are in America. Famed 80s singer Tina Turner moved to Switzerland in her later years, but she was only enabled to do so by all the money she had.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  15. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    Yanks talking about other countries - the recipe for desaster. They really just can't get it right.
    Strange that people from other parts of the world don't think simplifying everything until not even one percent is correct looks like a good idea.
    Switzerland allows immigration, it takes two minutes to look that up (obviously much too complicated for some).
    A bit over 2 million people in Switzerland are foreigners, almost 25%, that's immigration.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/gesell...rinnen-und-auslaender-in-der-schweiz/42411946
     
  16. tomander7020

    tomander7020 Well-Known Member

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    Of course, it wasn't until 1971 that Swiss women gained the right to vote in federal elections and not until 1991 that the Federal Supreme Court ordered the canton Appenzell Innerrhoden to allow women to vote in local elections. Do you think that the success of Switzerland as a democratic country has something to do with keeping women out of politics? (tongue in cheek)

    On a more serious note, the Swiss Germans, Italians, and French may (barely) tolerate each other publicly, but in private conversations that is not always the case. As to toleration in general, there is widespread discrimination against Muslims in Switzerland. In a 2009 referendum, the Swiss voted to ban the construction of new minarets. However, there is no such ban on church steeples.

    In 2014 in another referendum, the Swiss voted to limit immigration from European Union countries (Sicherheit schaffen), although the Swiss government later watered down that proposal in order to retain its relationship with the European Union. There are now restrictions on immigration from the European Union, although there is no total ban as the referendum would have mandated. In this, the majority of the Swiss sided with the Brexiteers in the UK in supporting the idea that those inferior Europeans (d'entre eux les fran├žais) are best kept at arms length. (Many in both Switzerland and the UK do not consider themselves to be Europeans.)
     
  17. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In a 2009 referendum, the Swiss voted to ban the construction of new minarets. However, there is no such ban on church steeples.[/qupte]

    The fact that swiss people doesn't new minarets doesn't mean neither there is widesperad discrimination against muslims or that Switzerland is not the most democratic country in the world. Baning minaret isn't a discrimination, sentencing someone to death because he converted to a religion is discrimination, forbidding people to give some names because of their religious origins.

    [/quote]

    Yes, but it's definitively the wish of swiss people. Democracy mean "demos" "cratos", the power to the people. And it's totally the case in Switzeland.
    About immigration, considering the events of 2005, 2012, 2015,2016,2017, I don't think french people can give any lessons on the matter.
     
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  18. tomander7020

    tomander7020 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but it's definitively the wish of swiss people. Democracy mean "demos" "cratos", the power to the people. And it's totally the case in Switzeland.
    About immigration, considering the events of 2005, 2012, 2015,2016,2017, I don't think french people can give any lessons on the matter.[/QUOTE]

    I only wanted to point out that the Swiss are not the idealized people that some believe them to be. They are just as prejudiced as the rest of us.
     
  19. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I only wanted to point out that the Swiss are not the idealized people that some believe them to be. They are just as prejudiced as the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

    I don't claim they are an idealized people, I claim they are the most democratic country in the world.

    Democracy wasn't always an ideal, that why, in the late 18th century, people prefered the term of "republic" (res publica, the public thing) rather than "democracy" (the power of the people).
    I think that democracy is important, it give a huge responsibility to the people, the responsibility of their fate.
     

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