Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 19Crib, Apr 29, 2023.
maybe a factory worker
in Pennsylvania at the time?
There were better solutions eh
I’m guessing you think you have a point.
Yes, victimless crimes are filling our prisons and the lack of rehabilitation drives recidivism. You LOVE having the highest percentage of incarcerated citizens on the planet! Countries that approach our incarceration rate are places like Rwanda, El Salvador and Cuba! Meanwhile we have high violent crime rates compared to first world countries.
That prison industrial complex is working great, eh? Double down. Have fun. Won’t get my support.
That's true, nobody ever remembers that heroin and cocaine are human just like the rest of us and we shouldn't discount how they are exploited for personal enjoyment and to feed an addiction, just like slaves were!
The 13th separates what two? Just private ownership of slaves vs. public enslavement.
I’m not sure there is any value continuing this discussion if you think involuntary servitude/slavery is related to voluntary associations of wage earners and employers.
how "voluntary" do you think the relationship between employer and employee is? a worker MUST be in someone's payroll for his family to have a home or health care. much of america consists of factory towns with one major employer.
Don't worry about it. Give it a few years and kids, especially in Florida where the topic is forbidden, the kids will think slavery was the best thing since sliced bread.
LOL. A worker MUST be on a payroll? Sorry dude. I live in reality.
in reality? or in a blue tarp under the interstate?
The idea that it is a victimless crime simply ignores the damage it does to young minds. there are States now with laws that would be agreeable to you. I'm glad mine is not one of them.
I won't need it.
Reality. It’s unfortunate our society leads people to believe wage earning is the only path. That’s why I’m such a proponent of voluntary socialism (worker owned production, not wealth redistribution).
Just because your educational system and political system tells you being on a payroll is mandatory and beneficial doesn’t make it so. You do have choices, most people are just unaware they exist or aren’t interested in the responsibilities involved.
LOL. Antibiotic use in infants damages young bodies and minds. Homosexual sex used to be illegal in many places. Even though the practice has health consequences for all ages it’s wrong to criminalize it. Your body, your choice. Period.
Show me how incarcerating weed smokers, growers, and dealers is protecting youth! Prosecuting a victimless crime never protects anyone anyway.
“Need” is completely irrelevant to bodily autonomy.
well, heterosexual sex can have health consequences for all ages too, VD, etc..... but yes, we will not make consensual sex for adults illegal
I also agree the war on drugs causes more problems then the drugs themselves ever could... including funding gangs and gang culture
The whole truth and nothing but the truth about slavery in America will never be taught in government schools. That truth is far too inconvenient.
"Above all, crime was used in the South as a source of income for the state. An English traveler wrote in 1871:
"I confess I am more and more suspicious about the criminal justice of these Southern states. In Georgia there is no regular penitentiary at all, but an organized system of letting out the prisoners for profit. Some people here have got up a company for the purpose of hiring convicts. They pay $25,000 a year besides all expenses of food and keep, so that their money is clear profit to the state. The lessees work the prisoners both on estates and in mines, and apparently maintain severe discipline in their own way, and make a good thing of it. Colonel P , who is not very mealy-mouthed, admits that he left the concern because he could not stand the inhumanity of it. Another partner in the concern talked with great glee of the money he had made out of the convicts. This does seem simply a return to another form of slavery."
In no part of the modern world has there been so open and conscious a traffic in crime for deliberate social degradation and private profit as in the South since slavery. The Negro is not anti-social. He is no natural criminal. Crime of the vicious type, outside endeavor to achieve freedom or in revenge for cruelty, was rare in the slave South. Since 1876 Negroes have been arrested on the slightest provocation and given long sentences or fines which they were compelled to work out. The resulting peonage of criminals extended into every Southern state and led to the most revolting situations.
A Southern white woman writes:
"In some states where convict labor is sold to the highest bidder the cruel treatment of the helpless human chattel in the hands of guards is such as no tongue can tell nor pen picture. Prison inspectors find convicts herded together, irrespective of age; confined at night in shackles; housed sometimes, as has been found, in old box cars; packed almost as closely as sardines in a box. During the day all are worked under armed guards, who stand ready to shoot down any who may attempt to escape from this hell upon earth—the modern American bastile. Should one escape, the bloodhounds, trained for the purpose, are put upon his track, and the chances are that he will be brought back, severely flogged and put in double shackles, or worse."
BLACK RECONSTRUCTION IN AMERICA 1860- 1880, W.E.B. Dubois, introduction by David Levering Lewis, XVII THE PROPAGANDA OF HISTORY, the Free Press new York 1998. P. 697.
Yep. All kinds of things have consequences. If you don’t want a VD don’t engage in behavior that allows infection. If you don’t want cirrhosis of the liver, don’t drink every night.
Life is too short to spend all your time trying to force others not to do things (victimless crimes) you choose not to do for whatever reason. Getting the state to do the forcing for you is diabolical.
We still practice indentured servitude in the USA as well, a situation that is akin to slavery.
This servitude is instituted through a the collusion of a government providing cheap tuition money and colleges charging exorbitant rates. So a kid goes into debt for $200,000 to pay for four years education at $50,000 a year, then they find out their chosen degree in lesbian dance theory is worthless to business, then end up working the counter at Subway for 20 years to pay the college when they could have maybe just skipped college, worked at subway, and bought a house instead.
that southern white woman could as easily have been writing about conditions for illegal migrant labor in texas or california.
i have not read that web dubois history. might be interesting.
It is for people who are racists. Which is a fair portion of conservatives, and most trump supporters.
By the 1860s, roughly half of the households in Mississippi and South Carolina owned slaves. It wasn't that much of an expensive luxury
yep, or even too much fructose can cause fatty liver disease and people drink more of that as they do not have the side effect of getting drunk, heck they even give it to children - corporations do a good job of selling us unhealthy stuff, seed oils being another
"A new study relates liquid fructose intake to fatty liver disease"
but I agree, getting the truth out is all we can do, educate the public, they choose for themselves - we can't police people's bad health choices
what we can police is what people due to others... such as slavery
Yep. Giving your kid sweetened drinks and even lots of fruit juice is likely more harmful overall than a kid smoking some weed.
You've made my day. I was beginning to think everyone supported slavery!
There is still nothing like a tall cool glass of liquid fructose to ease a hangover.
yeah, your liver will love you for that one... not
Every high school senior should do a detailed cost/benefit analysis before deciding on college vs. trade and what major, if college is chosen.
The “incentives” you describe have inflated the cost of a degree while simultaneously devaluing a degree by simply creating more degreed citizens than the market needs.
Then they made educational debt impossible to discharge through bankruptcy! Devious, but brilliant!
In a simple word, pretty much. The 13th amendment says, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
Notice what I highlighted in bold and what it says. A person who is convicted within their state and is sent to prison as punishment is not considered a slave under the 13th Amendment.
Again, what you are effectively arguing is not slavery, but the decriminalization of certain illicit drugs. What you fail to answer is what happens when someone commits burglary, is identified, arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced to 20 years imprisonment, for that crime. What do you think the prisoner is going to do while in prison? He has three meals if you really want to call them that, a day, a bed, and a toilet. He is given or allowed more precisely a job, at far less than the minimum salary. That money he earns by working whether it is in a factory on prison grounds, such as making license plates, or mopping and cleaning the prison floors in the pods, or whatever, you are calling that slavery? I don't think so.
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