The U.S.S. Liberty Must Not Be Forgotten

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by resisting arrest, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Richard Helms agrees.

    "'Israeli authorities subsequently apologized for the incident, but few in Washington could believe that the ship had not been identified as an American naval vessel. Later, an interim intelligence memorandum concluded the attack was a mistake and not made in malice against the U.S. . . .

    "I had no role in the board of inquiry that followed, or the board's finding that there could be no doubt that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty. I have yet to understand why it was felt necessary to attack this ship or who ordered the attack.'

    Richard Helms, then-Director of Central Intelligence (CIA Director), A Look Over My Shoulder"

    http://www.gtr5.com/quotes/helms.htm
     
  2. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Experiencing an event does not make someone an expert in it

    A victim of rape does not become a certified sex crimes counselor do they?
     
  3. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some have probably done so; would you think such a therapist might understand rape better than someone who has only read about the subject?

    You still haven't told me why you believe the survivors of Israel's attack on Liberty are incorrect in their opinions about Israel's intent?
     
  4. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Honestly, it does NOT matter if the Israelis did know, for Moi.

    AT that time, Israel was not allied with America. America observed the Arab Boycott.
    AT that time, Israel was fighting for its' existence. America limited or refused arms sales to Israel. (So they bought French)
    REMEMBER: Israel cannot afford to lose one war of Israeli annihilation. ​



    The Liberty was loaded with communications gear.
    Was it intercepting and relaying communications to Israel's Arab would be, annihilators?

    International Waters at time of War is just so much FLUFF :rant: FLUFF don't stop bullets!
    The CIA commandeered a vessel of the USN and similar to the Pueblo, treated Americans recklessly.
    The USN does not leave any vessel so exposed without cover.

    Those who resurrect the memory of the Liberty would truthfully be served by looking to the CIA
    unless their agenda is purely, anti Israel!​



    Moi :oldman:

    r > g

     
  5. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I believe they are too close to the issue to be objective in their analysis.

    None of the Liberty survivors would be in any position to possess any information about whether the Israelis attacked the ship knowing it was an American ship or not.
     
  6. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "The 1967 Oil Embargo began on June 6, 1967, one day after the beginning of the Six-Day War, with a joint Arab decision to deter any countries from supporting Israel militarily. Several Middle Eastern countries eventually limited their oil shipments, some embargoing only the United States and the United Kingdom, while others placed a total ban on oil exports. The Oil Embargo did not significantly decrease the amount of oil available in the United States or any affected European countries due mainly to a lack of solidarity and uniformity in embargoing specific countries."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Oil_Embargo
     
  7. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Arab Boycott goes way back, through the early fifties and onward.
    Ike observed it.
    JFK observed it.
    LBJ observed it.
    NIXON was the first President to honestly, sincerely, support Israel although he did not enjoy the American Jewish vote.

    The Arab Boycott, supported by all the Western World, and Japan too as power house manufacturers who swore off trade with Israel through the fifties and early sixties.

    Okay?
     
  8. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "WHAT IS BDS?

    "In 2005, Palestinian civil society issued a call for a campaign of boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel until it complies with international law and Palestinian rights. A truly global movement against Israeli Apartheid is rapidly emerging in response to this call."
    History repeats?

    - See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/#sthash.2FQQPgg3.dpuf
     
  9. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Keep it to the fifties when referencing the Arab Boycott

    unless you only wish to obfuscate the discussion. Okay? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_League_boycott_of_Israel

    The Oil Embargo was the Arab Boycott last gasp, and it was bogus anyways.

    The attempt of my uploads is to focus on the State of Israeli / American relations circa the Liberty.
    Today, most forget it was diff, then.
     
  10. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Other Americans are.
    Do you believe they are lying?


    "Forslund's recollections are supported by those of two other Air Force intelligence specialists, working in widely separate locations, who say they also saw the transcripts of the attacking Israeli pilots' communications.

    "One is James Gotcher, now an attorney in California, who was then serving with the Air Force Security Service's 6924th Security Squadron, an adjunct of the NSA, at Son Tra, Vietnam.

    "'It was clear that the Israeli aircraft were being vectored directly at USS Liberty,' Gotcher recalled in an e-mail. 'Later, around the time Liberty got off a distress call, the controllers seemed to panic and urged the aircraft to "complete the job" and get out of there.'

    "Six thousand miles from Omaha, on the Mediterranean island of Crete, Air Force Capt. Richard Block was commanding an intelligence wing of more than 100 analysts and cryptologists monitoring Middle Eastern communications.

    "The transcripts Block remembered seeing 'were teletypes, way beyond Top Secret. Some of the pilots did not want to attack,' Block said. 'The pilots said, 'This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?'

    "And ground control came back and said, 'Yes, follow orders.'"

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-liberty_tuesoct02-story.html#page=3
     
  11. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you think Israel should have been rewarded for starting the 1967 war?
    "During the June 9–18 Oil Ministers' Conference in Baghdad several Arab countries issued a communiqué[1] that two resolutions were unanimously passed:
    "Arab oil shall be denied to and shall not be allowed to reach directly or indirectly countries committing aggression or participating in aggression on sovereignty of any Arab state or its territories or its territorial waters, particularly the Gulf of Aqaba"
    "The involvement of any country, directly or indirectly in armed aggression against Arab states will make assets of its companies and nationals inside the territories of Arab countries subject to the laws of war. This includes the assets of oil companies."
    Invitees included the United Arab Republic, Syria, Kuwait, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, and Qatar. Iraq sent copies of the Council resolution to the Embassies of Iran and Indonesia, and sought the support of Venezuela."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Oil_Embargo#Oil_Ministers.27_Conference
     
  12. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you think Israel should have been rewarded for starting the 1967 war?

    Wow!

    Start with a False statement and logically grind it to your bigoted solution.

    Yes I remember, Israel sent U.N. Peace keepers out and then shut an international waterway. Bad Israel.
    And then Israel mobilized to surround Syrian, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, etc. calling for their annihilation.
    Yup, I see where you are going.
    Add the above to your lies.
     
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I think they are mistaken. Like I said I've studied the attack for years and never even heard about Forslund. I have no reason to think that his supposedly seeing transcripts that he claims (and two others claim) are accurate depictions of events there.

    It would not be difficult to mistake transcripts taken hours earlier with those during the attack.
     
  14. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which state launched the first assault in June 1967?
    "There were other intercepts, and I and many others like me, read transcripts of the air-to-air and air-to-ground communications of the fighters who attacked the USS Liberty. We read these in real time during the day the attack occurred. These intercepts were preceded by many others we read that week that started with the opening attack by Israel in the war and included intercepts of messages between the USA and Israel in which our government stated their knowledge of the Israeli's pre-emptive attack that began the war and warned Israel to cease their activities."
    http://ussliberty.org/forslund.htm
    In 1948 European Jews launched a campaign of ethnic cleansing that drove over 700,000 indigenous Palestinians from their homes, businesses, and farms. In 1967 the next generation of Zionists completed the theft of Palestine. Are you proud?
     
  15. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you have "studied this attack for years and never even heard about Forslund," you have very sloppy study habits.

    From the OP:


    "The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident and a hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry headed by Admiral John McCain acted under orders from Washington to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity.

    "The inquiry’s senior legal counsel Captain Ward Boston, who subsequently declared the attack to be a 'deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew,' also described how 'President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.'

    "The court’s findings were rewritten and sections relating to Israeli war crimes, to include the machine gunning of life rafts, were excised.

    "Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence.

    "Most of the documents relating to the Liberty incident have never been released to the public in spite of the 48 years that have passed since the attack took place."

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-uss-liberty-must-not-be-forgotten/
     
  16. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    A handful of dissenters over the official findings in not evidence to the contrary.

    and I fail to see how John McCain's father was guilty of covering anything up.
     
  17. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You fail to see how the sworn statement of Jim Ennes, Officer of the Deck during most of Israel's recon flights, not being permitted into evidence during the Naval Court of Inquiry provides any evidence of cover up? Perhaps you are clear on why Jim's hand-written deck logs were not entered into evidence but were, instead, rewritten and signed by someone else? Maybe you know if this was a violation of US Navy Regulations? Maybe you just don't care...
    http://www.ussliberty.org/nci.htm
     
  18. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have any knowledge of your claim being true.
     
  19. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can you provide any evidence my claim is untrue?
     
  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Wrong way around.

    It is not up to us to prove that your claims are real or unreal, it is up to you to prove that they are real.

    Hey, I can jump under my own power all the way to the moon.

    Come on, I dare you to prove I am not telling the truth. Can you prove I can not jump to the moon?
     
  21. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You weren't a Math major, were you?
    http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae158.cfm

    I've offered numerous examples in support of my belief Israel deliberately attacked the US Liberty, including eyewitness testimony, quotes from elite political and military personnel whose positions permitted access to real-time classified intelligence data like that revealed by Steven Forslund and many others. By contrast, those claiming Israel attacked Liberty in ignorance offer no such corroborative evidence. Maybe they also believe you can jump to the moon?
     
  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    There have been official investigations by both nations involved and a general narrative of events accepted.

    It is incumbent upon those who disagree to provide clear and overwhelming evidence of facts contrary to that.

    You've offered:

    1) Claims that eyewitnesses disagree with the official accounts. But eyewitnesses are considered the least reliable form of evidence.

    2) Approximately THREE claims of people to have seen transcripts of radio traffic that contradicts the official account. Now if you had actual verified copies of those transcripts with experts testifying to their legitimacy you might have something but I have not seen that.
     
  23. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Computer Science actually.

    Now can you prove that I can not under my own power reach escape velocity? Your reference did not say a single thing about me, or my ability to jump. Therefore it is invalid in refuting my claim.
     
  24. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Start you own thread on whether or not you can reach escape velocity.
    This one's about Israel's deliberate assault on the USS Liberty.
     
  25. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My inability to provide verified copies of top secret transcripts proves the US Congress has never held a hearing to determine culpability for the attack. I've provided links to dozens of sources providing "overwhelming evidence" of a deliberate Israeli attack that murdered 34 Americans and wounded another 174 while you have failed to offer any rebuttal except your own opinion. Your reluctance to accept the testimony of a hundred eyewitnesses, including one Medal of Honor winner, without providing any counternarrative makes me wonder if you place the interests of Israel over those of the US? Do you?
     

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