The US did not win the war against Japan in WW II.

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Thingamabob, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In order to end the bombing of Japan the US said that the Japanese would have to agree to an UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER. But since the US agreed to the CONDITIONS dictated by Japan the US ultimately lost the war.

    Truman lied when he stated that Japan had been defeated. The US simply chickened out and gave up. :truce:
     
  2. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    That must be why Japan was occupied.
     
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  3. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You must be reading from the Vox WW2 history book.
     
  4. ararmer1919

    ararmer1919 Banned

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    Can someone explain to me how in the actual hell this made any sense whatsoever to the op when he wrote it?
     
  5. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure.

    Probably the heavy daily consumption of Democrat Underground, Vox, and CNN.

    Re-writing history to be as SJW as possible is bread and butter for the leftist.
     
  6. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    LSD ?
     
  7. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's what happens when you get 7 margaritas deep and start posting online.
     
  8. Tergara

    Tergara Active Member

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    Nah, if it was true ridiculous logic from the peaceniks, it'd be about the use of atomic weapons.
     
  9. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    LOL What random bar argument led to this?
     
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  11. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The American government called for UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER. The Japanese refused to surrender at all. The US dropped the first bomb and then asked Japan again to agree to an UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER. Japan refused again. The US dropped the second bomb then once more asked Japan to agree to an UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER. Japan said "No!" They would only agree to end the war if they could dictate the CONDITION, that of keeping the Emperor. The US replied that nothing less than UNCONDITIONAL surrender would be accepted. Japan said OK then they will continue to fight. Truman relented and agreed to Japan's surrender on Japan's CONDITION. That was NOT an UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER but Truman PR'd that it was. The US chicken shyt and backed down.
    :truce:
    Facts children, facts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    Thats a really tiny technicality to focus on...

    Whats your point?
     
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  13. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It wasn't a "tiny technicality" to the American government. They demanded UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER over and over and over again and said they wouldn't budge from that demand. Their strategy and whole game plan was based upon that point. You are afraid to admit it but your "sour grapes" demonstrates that you know that I am right.
    The point is obvious unless you are not paying attention. Truman lied. The US DID NOT achieve victory in Japan as it was laid out by their own demands. America ate crow, chickened out, and surrendered to Japan's demand.
    :truce:
     
  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    Woah dood… chill out.

    Have you ever pondered why Truman and the elites did that? Its far worse than 'chickening out.' Short version is: we needed a test subject for the atomic bomb, and one city obliterated simply didn't provide enough data. Two didn't really either, but it was determined that international opinion might not suffer three, so we stopped playing 'how long will Japan die for The Emporer' (prolly to the end) and finally accepted surrender.

    If the US was truly only interested in ending the war, the first bomb would've fallen on Hirohito, not civilians.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  15. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    So Japan won the war?
    That's some good acid you've dropped.
     
  16. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It all spells "chicken shyt". The US was at war with Japan for ..... about 4 years? And all during that time the US was postering, boasting, and flexing its muscles as the "how dare they attack us" force that was going to put Japan in its place by forcing an Unconditional Surrender upon the Japanese. For all of those 4 years, the US continually reminded the Japanese (and the world) that they would accept nothing but an Unconditional Surrender. More than 10 million people (I'm guessing at the numbers) were killed while the US set out to achieve that Unconditional Surrender. So the "Unconditional" aspect of that goal was important to those waging war from the US.

    It seems that is you (rather than me) who is most critical of the American finalé in the Pacific war - that's a huge surprise 8)! You say the bombs were dropped merely for the purpose of WMD "data". Maybe you are right but I don't think so and I do not agree. The only point I am making is that the US did not achieve its horn-blowing, declared intention of forcing an Unconditional Surrender of the Japanese. That is the reason I started this thread and I have proved my point. The US ate crow and Truman out-and-out lied about the results. Americans don't seem to realize that and from the initial responses to this thread I think we can conclude they don't know shyt about it. They swallowed the lie hook, line and sinker .... hence, this thread.

    FOOTNOTE: As far as the incident at Pearl Harbour, Japanese conduct during hostilities, and dropping of the bomb(s) ... I think that Japan was right in attacking Pearl Harbour although their conduct was otherwise appalling, and I agree with the US for dropping both bombs. The US forced Japan into a corner whereby their attack on Pearl Harbour was understandable but the Japanese were such "bad boys" in China and elsewhere (once hostilities had begun in earnest) so that the US made the best of a very bad situation. But none of that has anything to with this thread.
     
  17. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How absurd.
     
  18. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    The only condition they wouldn't agree to after Hiroshima was nuked was the surrender of their god-emporer (a predictable outcome given the level of their indoctrination). If one nuke didn't do it, neither would 2 nor 100. The bombing of Nagasaki and the acceptance of conditional surrender anyway thereafter (wherein the Japanese were allowed to keep their god-emporer) leads little room for any alternative, imo, to the scenario I previously described.

    However, if I'm wrong, the willingness to wave such an ultimately trivial condition as the surrender of a leader that would for all intents and purposes be powerless thereafter anyway, in the interest of stopping such a massive and bloody war, is not indicative of cowardice if there is but a shred of humanity lingering in the deciding powers. In either case, I think your depiction is way off.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  19. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean the Japanese reckoned that a God of the Emperor's stature couldn't have been killed by any number of bombs? A point definitely worth exploring.
    NOTE: Only valid as the Japanese themselves decreed.
    No, The Japanese had the US against the ropes. Japan warned the US time and time again, "Put your paws on us and we will kick your arse." But that was never an idle threat. The Japanese did exactly that each and every time the US flexed its muscles in Japan's direction. Herein lies the crux of the matter. The final decision ... the "last stand" that determined who were the men and who were the boys whistling in the dark .... it was (as always) the Japanese who stood tall and firm. "Put your paws on us again and we are going to kick your arse". The outcome of that last stand was that the US dropped its weapons and bowed to the Emperor. Everything else was theatrics. The US did the very same thing later during the Cuba crisis. Kennedy caved in to Soviet demands but played theatrics when it came to rounding off the outcome for American history books.
     
  20. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    funny, the Japanese don't feel like they won the war.
     
  21. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The fuse for war in the Pacific, Imperial Japan vs. the U.S. Navy was lit in 1905.

    The war was unavoidable unless Britain, France, the Dutch and America retreated and had no presence in East and South Asia and the Western Pacific.

    Japan started drawing up its war plans for war in the Pacific in 1905.

    It was no secret and the United States did likewise and in 1924 War Plan Orange was adopted and would be used during WW ll to defeat Japan.

    (War Plan Orange was drawn up by two Marine Corps Majors.)

    Japan's war plan called for the mother of all naval battles to be fought in the Central Pacific sinking the U.S. Navy fleet.
    The United States would sue for peace was the thinking.

    That U.S. Navy fleet that would be sunk would be the fleet that was steaming towards the Philippine Islands to rescue American and Filipino forces.

    Unknown to Japan, War Plan Orange called for allowing Japan to occupy the Philippine Islands.
    MaCarthur's army was expendable.

    So the mother of all naval battles never happened.

    Some digressing:

    For Japan to have fought that mother of all naval battles Japan needed those thousands of islands and atolls in in the Central Pacific that were German territory before 1918 except for the hundred islands of the Hawaiian Islands chain and Guam that were U.S. territory. The Mandate Islands (Micronesia Islands) needed to be occupied and militarized by Japan.

    So to get those German islands Japan declared war on Germany in 1914 during WW l.

    It's all here, it's where history is written from when it comes to America and WW ll. -> http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/
     
  22. Tergara

    Tergara Active Member

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    So, long story short any war that does not end in the someone's stated objectives is lost? Cause really that is a ton of wars. I've heard of rewriting history, but this takes the cake.

    We so lost the war that we didn't become the dominant power in the Pacific for the last 70 years.

    Now if you want to say the US didn't have as complete a victory as they liked, I'll not argue that. But in the end, the Emperor was the one who convinced people to surrender. Otherwise we'd have had millions more casaulties and probably Godzilla from all the nukes we'd have dropped on Japan.
     
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  23. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    This is a troll thread, aimed to provoke and intimidate. Not worthy of reply.

    To the responders to date, as an Aussie we are greatful the USA brought the Emperor to his knees. Our fathers fought together and won.
     
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  24. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    .. and yet here you are ......... replying. Funny that.
    Your brother and I also fought together and lost. So what's your point .... "Hurrah for our side!" and never mind who were the good guys and who were the bad guys? It's a pathetic notion.

    How ripe. I guess you didn't read the OP. That must explain why you think it's a "troll thread aimed to provoke and intimidate." You don't realize that the Emperor WAS NOT "brought to his knees", That is precisely what this thread is all about. He dictated the terms, not the Americans.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  25. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    Baited
     

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