The US did not win the war against Japan in WW II.

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Thingamabob, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    And you have yet to provide any proof that the Japanese were demanded to surrender unconditionally.

    You can repeat the same coprolite over and over until you turn pink, it does not change the fact that such a surrender was never demanded.

    This entire thread is like an old Monty Python skit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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  2. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You realize this is a troll thread, right? It's meant to get a response out of people. Just report and move on.
     
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  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I am very much aware of it. And my posts are ultimately not even directed at the troll.

    They are really directed at those others who might read it, and start to buy into their particular form of insanity. I post the same way in the Conspiracy Theory threads.

    I know there is no way to convince the CT nutters that they are crazy, but I post in the hopes that others will take some time to actually research real information, and realize what is being posted is nonsense.
     
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  4. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Meth is a helluwa drug.
    :crossbones::eyepopping::icon_jawdrop::skull::tombstone:
     
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  5. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Truth is in the definition:

    unconditional
    adjective [usually ADJECTIVE noun]
    If you describe something as unconditional, you mean that the person doing or giving it does not require anything to be done by other people in exchange.


    It can't be easier than that to understand, although meth is a helluwa drug. It dulls the senses among other things. :crazy::cry::cynic::dizzy::dog::eyepopping::fear::laughing:
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    And once again, I am going to ask the same thing I have over and over.

    Where did the US or any of the Allied powers demand that? Amazingly, you have yet to ever provide proof that such was even a demand in the first place.

    Therefore, you still fail.

    I wonder if the reverse of the campaign slogan is possible. If you fail so much, that you get tired of failing.
     
  7. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Well the Japanese did sign a unconditional surrender and it says that pretty clearly on the surrender document
     
  8. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Robert E. Lee unconditionally surrendered the Northern Army of Virginia to Gen. Grant but there were conditions that Johnny Reb could keep his personal horses and side arms for protection for the long walk or ride home.

    There were a few other conditions agreed on but the history books say that Lee surrendered unconditionally.
     
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  9. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    The japanese surrender document says unconditional
     
  10. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    INSTRUMENT OF SURRENDER

    [​IMG]e, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.

    We hereby proclaim the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters and of all Japanese armed forces and all armed forces under the Japanese control wherever situated.

    We hereby command all Japanese forces wherever situated and the Japanese people to cease hostilities forthwith, to preserve and save from damage all ships, aircraft, and military and civil property and to comply with all requirements which may be imposed by the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers or by agencies of the Japanese Government at his direction.

    We hereby command the Japanese Imperial Headquarters to issue at once orders to the Commanders of all Japanese forces and all forces under Japanese control wherever situated to surrender unconditionally themselves and all forces under their control.

    We hereby command all civil, military and naval officials to obey and enforce all proclamations, and orders and directives deemed by the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers to be proper to effectuate this surrender and issued by him or under his authority and we direct all such officials to remain at their posts and to continue to perform their non-combatant duties unless specifically relieved by him or under his authority.

    We hereby undertake for the Emperor, the Japanese Government and their successors to carry out the provisions of the Potsdam Declaration in good faith, and to issue whatever orders and take whatever actions may be required by the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers or by any other designated representative of the Allied Powers for the purpose of giving effect to that Declaration.

    We hereby command the Japanese Imperial Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters at once to liberate all allied prisoners of war and civilian internees now under Japanese control and to provide for their protection, care, maintenance and immediate transportation to places as directed.

    The authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government to rule the state shall be subject to the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers who will take such steps as he deems proper to effectuate these terms of surrender.


    Signed at TOKYO BAY, JAPAN at 0903 I on the SECOND day of SEPTEMBER, 1945.

    [​IMG]
    By Command and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan and the Japanese Government.

    [​IMG]
    By Command and in behalf of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters.

    Accepted at TOKYO BAY, JAPAN at 0908 I on the SECOND day of SEPTEMBER, 1945, for the United States, Republic of China, United Kingdom and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and in the interests of the other United Nations at war with Japan.

    [​IMG]
    Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers.



    [​IMG]
    United States Representative

    [​IMG]
    Republic of China Representative

    [​IMG]
    United Kingdom Representative

    [​IMG]
    Union of Soviet Socialist Republics Representative

    [​IMG]
    Commonwealth of Australia Representative

    [​IMG]
    Dominion of Canada Representative

    [​IMG]
    Provisional Government of the French Republic Representative

    [​IMG]
    Kingdom of the Netherlands Representative

    [​IMG]
    Dominion of New Zealand Representative
     
  11. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Yep there it is. Second paragraph
     
  12. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully this ridiculous thread can now die with the dignity it doesn't deserve.
     
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  13. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :rock_slayer:
     
  14. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Academics often fashion careers and tenure based on technically tiny areas of focus.... Or maybe, it's just abnormal peyote use.. Hard to tell....
     
  15. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :rock_slayer:
    I looked at Robert E. Lee's article of surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia.

    Lee wrote the surrender document.

    Most of the agreements made between Lee and Grant were verbal and not in the document of surrender.

    I believe each Confederate army individually surrendered while the historians say it was an unconditional surrender it wasn't.

    The biggest mistake the North made was the military occupation of the South after the war with reconstruction that resulted in the Northern carpetbaggers and scalawags following the occupation army and the Southern Democrats response was the birth of the Ku Klux Klan.
     
  16. iamwhatiseem

    iamwhatiseem Well-Known Member

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    So let's make a simple story to illustrate this stoned dude's reasoning here...

    Big tough guy beats the sh*t out of smaller guy... upon wakening the smaller guy refuses to say "uncle".
    Big tough guy pounds him into sand again...little guy awakes in the ER and refuses to say "uncle"
    Big Tough guy grinds him into a fine powder...little guy near death and in wheel chair for life, still refuses to say "uncle"

    The OP says the little guy won the fight.
     
  17. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    The only way the OP makes sense is if you consider all the other nations who helped defeat the Japanese.
    Even then it was the US which made by far the largest contribution to winning the war against them.
     
  18. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you illiterate ... or :alcoholic:? Just asking.
     
  19. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But the best (and simplest) way is to read comprehensively. I say unconditional means "unconditional" ... you say it doesn't mean that?
     
  20. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    It was unconditional. That is a fact
     
  21. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    http://politicalforum.com/index.php...-japan-in-ww-ii.539582/page-7#post-1069961276
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  22. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US dropped the second bomb then once more asked Japan to agree to an UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER. Japan said "No!" > > > They would only agree to end the war if they could dictate the CONDITION, that of keeping the Emperor. The US replied that nothing less than UNCONDITIONAL surrender would be accepted. Japan said OK then they will continue to fight. Truman relented and agreed to Japan's surrender on Japan's CONDITION. That was NOT an UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER but Truman PR'd that it was.

    :above: Read carefully :above: ...... the U.S. did not accept the Japanese condition .... but later relented when Japan said it would carry on the fight if their condition was not accepted. It's simple English really.
     
  23. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Nope. They signed an unconditional surrender
     
  24. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're both a little right (you much more than him). The proof for your case is the fact that not only did Japan surrender, but they agreed to dismantle their military and provide only the minimum for defense. They also gave up land they had won and were given the orders of which they were allowed to live.

    Was it technically "unconditional"? No, but it was as close as one can get without being so. Therefore I side with you
     
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  25. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Reconstruction was needed. As it was in many areas of the South slavery took another decade or more to finally end. And we saw various forms of debt servitude last for decades more.

    Now imagine how that would have gone if not for Reconstruction and Occupation.

    Also it was a firm hand that helped show future secessionists that there was no revolt without consequences. You try to break away, and after you are put down you get occupied for a decade or so afterwards.

    But the KKK would have started with or without Reconstruction.
     

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