The US Plot to Exploit Venezuela

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Horhey, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    37,828
    Likes Received:
    3,621
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Every DOLLAR the Saudi despots possess is US money.
     
  2. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,597
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you nuts?
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,597
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Guido is also a socialist.
     
  4. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,597
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It has NOTHING to do with Syria.. Iran was the target.
     
  5. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why is it that Norway with its nationalized oil industry isn’t starving to death, while Venezuela with its nationalized oil industry can’t even feed its lab rats?

    And if America and it’s corporate control of the government :roflol:is so hell bent on destroying socialism where ever it rears it’s ugly head, why hasn’t she demanded Norway’s expulsion from NATO, and regime change for its government?

    Could it be because Norway’s population isn’t starving to death. And could it be that the reason it’s not starving to death is because it’s economy is still predominantly capitalist?

    Could it be America is only interested in regime change when leaders of nations turn their countries into a cemeteries?

    What angers me the most about liberal progressives is how they can be so morally outraged at a perceived violation of the Holy Grail, Democracy; but feel no outrage, no revulsion, no indignation at the two men most responsible for taking the richest nation in South America and turning it into a ghetto of mass starvation, a ghetto that rivals that of Warsaw under Nazi occupation. Those two men are Chavez and Maduro, not Trump and Bolten.

    While you so-called “concerned souls” for democracy wring your hands...shake your fingers...cry your tears...and argue about who voted for whom, men, women, and children are dying...and the one responsible is walking around free, smoking Cuban cigars.

    There is no hell hot enough to grant you the justice you deserve.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  6. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Norway is not a Third World country. It's not part of the Grand Area designated by US planners after World War II. And it's certainly not in the backyard. Venezuela's oil reserves were nationalized before Chavez. The poverty level was double what it is now. The barrios did not just appear their in the last 20 years. The barriors are why Chavez was elected in the first place. You're actually arguing that Venezuela was not a Third World country before Chavez. You've been popagandized.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  7. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So, according to you, people are dying of starvation in a socialist paradise because everything got better after Chavez and Maduro.

    Nah. Not possible. Nobody could be that devoid of reality. Wait...? Maybe...? Nope. I think they killed Baghdad Bob. You must be Caracas Charlie.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,597
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The British didn't draw the borders of KSA.. They never had any presence in Arabia.
     
  9. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,597
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Horhey is right... You might read some history of the oil business in VZ.
     
  10. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why don't you check on Colombia's economy. Take a look at the numbers. Check all US allies in the region. See Haiti. Honduras. Chile.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  11. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Former US Ambassador to Venezuela William Brownfield, who pressed for more sanctions on Venezuela, admitted that the US is going to make the Venezuelan people suffer until Maduro is ousted and Guaidó is installed:
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,597
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good grief.. Who's water is he carrying?
     
  13. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So again, the population is not starving, cats and dogs have not disappeared, everything is beautiful, socialism is thriving, Venezuela is still the richest country, incomes are rising, GNP is rising, the standard of living is rising. And all the unrest is unreal and faked by the same people who faked the moon landing. Astonishing.

    For the record
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    ToddWB likes this.
  14. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Damn Capitalists, all they do is steal and rob from the poor, the unproductive, the beggars, the dullards, and the lest of us. If it wasn't for American capitalists, the world would be living in perfect harmony reaching untold peace and prosperity.

    Give me a frigging break.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    ToddWB likes this.
  15. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And there's this:
    After Hugo Chávez officially took office in February 1999, several policy changes involving the country's oil industry were made to explicitly tie it to the state under his Bolivarian Revolution. Since then, PDVSA has not demonstrated any capability to bring new oil fields onstream since nationalizing heavy oil projects in the Orinoco Petroleum Belt formerly operated by international oil companies ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips, Chevron and Total. Chávez’s policies damaged Venezuela's oil industry due to lack of investment, corruption and cash shortages.[27][28]

    The Chávez government used PDVSA resources to fund social programmes, treating it like a "piggybank",[29] and PDVSA staff were required to support Chávez. His social policies resulted in overspending[26][30][31] that caused shortages in Venezuela and allowed the inflation rate to grow to one of the highest rates in the world.[32][33][34]

    According to Corrales and Penfold, "Chávez was not the first president in Venezuelan history to be mesmerized by the promise of oil, but he was the one who allowed the sector to decline the most", with most statistics showing deterioration of the industry since the beginning of his presidency.[35]

    Chávez's successor, Nicolás Maduro, continued much of the policies championed by Chávez, with Venezuela further deteriorating as a result of continuing such policies--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Venezuelan_oil_industry

    Every socialist country that fails, is failing, has already failed, failed because of socialism, not because of capitalists robbing the poor. That's a fact. Think about it, just what is it that the poor have so much of that any thief would want, let alone money seeking capitalists?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    ToddWB likes this.
  16. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So if America would just disappear, the world would live as one guided by enlightened benevolent dictators such as the Castro's, Chavez and Maduro, Stalin and Mao, and Pol Pot and Kim, the only true lovers of freedom, peace, and brotherhood. Silly me.

    Oh, the brotherhood of man. Oh, brother!
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  17. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Look here:
    Before Chavez most of the oil profits went to Venezuelan oligarchs. Hence one of the reasons for the barrios throughout most of the country. After Chavez the oil revenue funded social programs like healthcare, education, and housing. Extreme poverty, infant mortality, and unemployment was cut in half. GDP per capita rose from $4,105 to $10,801. Illiteracy was virtually eliminated.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/oct/04/venezuela-hugo-chavez-election-data

    And yes it is about the exploition of a foreign country's resources:
    You also contradict yourself. You say Norway is socialist but they're doing just fine. In Venezuela you have a government that doesn't know how to run an economy and an empire that's taking advantage of the situation and making it worse.

    Once the US puppet takes over Washington will sign a Free Trade Agreement with them, thereby "locking in" Venezuela to the world system of corporate tyranny. It won't matter who the Venezuelan people elect. No more threat of democracy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    Margot2 likes this.
  18. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So, no one is starving in Venezuela. Venezuela is just as free and prosperous as Cuba, a socialist paradise. Give me a frigging break.

    Norway is not socialist, it’s a mixed economy. It’s the capitalist part that is keeping it solvent.

    No nation owns it natural resources. Natural resource belong to whomever is intelligent and skilled enough to get it out of the ground and get it to market. The wealth of a nation is not determined by how rich the state treasury is; it’s how skilled it’s individual citizens are at being productive, innovative, and creative.

    Lastly, my point is not necessarily about who, what, or when Venezuela oil was nationalized; it’s about why Norway has a nationalized oil industry to pay for its socialist programs and is living in relative luxury compared to Venezuela, while Venezuela has gone from the richest South American nation to its one of its poorest? Is that difference the poor management of Chavez and Maduro?

    I say it is.

    BTW: Who collectivized the farms, which Norway hasn’t done.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    ToddWB likes this.
  19. Horhey

    Horhey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    70% of the economy is owned by the private sector. They relied on solely on oil to fund everything. Oil prices dropped sharply when Saudi Arabia increased production at the US behest. So yes Government mismanagement is to blame for the initial economic crisis. US sanctions made it worse and pretty much guarantee they can't recover. Recall the great recession of 2008, caused by criminal US based financial institutions and government corruption. There was no super power preventing a recovery.
     
  20. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And who collectivized the farms?
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  21. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,597
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're a nut.
     
  22. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,597
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Cooperativa Aracal sits in a fertile valley next to the Urachiche River in the State of Yaracuy, about 250 kms from Caracas, the capital of Venezuela.



    The 2,500 acres that Aracal now occupies was previously “owned” by a group of Batista Cubans who arrived in the area in 1949. With the complicity of the local government, the Cubans gained control of the state land, removing the local campesinos (farmers) by force.

    Since no legal title for the land could ever be produced by the Cubans, the campesinos had the right under agrarian reform laws from the 60’s, to attempt to reclaim the land. However, at this time, these laws were ineffective due to the shared interests of the large land owners and the local, state and federal governments.

    This changed with the election of Hugo Chávez to the Presidency in 1998, and subsequent passage, in November 13, 2001, of a package of 49 laws covering land reform. Under these laws, a cooperative could be formed to reclaim the title of idle government land.

    Thus, Aracal was established in 2002, as a cooperative of more than 500 campesinos, and the title to the land was finally won in 2004, becoming one of the first latifundios (large, idle plantations) reclaimed in Venezuela.

    Four years later, in 2008, I visited Aracal, to document the story and life of the cooperative. I found that, under the guidance of 122 members, Cooperativa Aracal was producing more than 15 mixed crops, including a variety of fruits, vegetables and plantation wood; rearing about 90 cattle, used for milk and beef; and planning the construction of a fish farm. An artisanal laboratory, which focuses on biological methods of pest control, as well as a high tech bio-lab, focused on the creation of natural pesticides and organic fertilizers, also existed on the premises.

    continued.

    https://www.murraycox.com/venezuela/aracal/
     
  23. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Based on this data, Chavez and Maduro are idiots at best.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela#Economy_data
     
  24. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, hard to top that brilliant response.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  25. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    68,597
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOLOL.. Do you have any idea why abandoned farms and plantations were collectivized?

    https://www.murraycox.com/venezuela/aracal/
     

Share This Page