The Vietnam War – 42 years Ago

Actually it was Truman who in 1950 sent 65 U.S. advisors to Vietnam and open up MAAG-INDOCHINA in Saigon. IKE increased the advisors to 800 and in 1954 Eisenhower changed the name of MAAG-INDOCHINA to MAAG-Vietnam. IKE also twice kept us out of a ground war in Vietnam during his presidency. Eisenhower decided to concentrate on Laos stating Laos was the key to all of Southeast Asia and he briefed JFK of the same. JFK later complained about IKE telling him all about Laos but not a single word about Vietnam.

It was JFK who was responsible for two major turning points in Vietnam. The first was changing the complete command structure there. In 1962 he changed MAAG-VIETNAM which could support only limited number of troops or advisors, call there what you will into MACV. He changed a limited roll with a colonel to a one star as head of command in a MAAG which couldn't support many troops into MACV, a four star command with the structure to support any amount or unlimited troops. If one understand military command structure, this opened the door to big time importation of American troops into Vietnam.

The second thing JFK did was approve a coup by the military to get rid of Diem. Now he didn't come right out and say overthrow Diem, he just told Lodge then Ambassador that if a coup happened, the U.S. would continue its support to the South Vietnamese government no matter who was in charge which Lodge dutifully passed on.

At that point we owned Vietnam. Now historians have come to the conclusion that the first attack against the Maddox was real. The second faulty sonar. But the Maddox was where she was for a reason, one should dig into OPLAN-34 run by SOG and OPLAN 34-A for answers on that.

 

Thank you for an intelligent, informative post.

 

Did we own Vietnam, or did it own us?

But the larger point is that what might have happened in RVN, what actually DID happen there, was of no particular concern to the national security of the US. Indeed, decades after our "defeat" there, we are trading with them. Somehow, the world hasn't ended, the dominos did not fall, and whether the Red Chinese or the Russians were supporting them, we now trade with both those countries.

All the fear-inspiring propaganda was just that--nothing of substance.

 

My pleasure. There has been so much of real history lost because history today has been condensed into slogans.

 

One reason the dominoes did not fall was our involvement in Southeast Asia. Especially Thailand. Thailand was a weak, divided nation at the end of WWII. Beginning in 1950 with a couple of military agreements we started to help build them up militarily and economically. Nothing really big. The Thai's also had their war against the CT's or communist Thais that went unreported as Vietnam was the main story. But by about 1970 we had transformed the Thai military from one that flew WWII Spitfires and prop bombers into one that had jets and a lot of modern aircraft. Their army went from old carbines to the M-16 and modern at the time 105 and 155 howitzers and a whole bunch more. We updated the Thai Navy to a point where Thailand could stand on its own. Thailand back then had the population, the resources, the King united the country, their army defeated the CT's and by 1973, it was strong enough to stand on its own against the best the North Vietnamese could offer. But Thailand could not have resisted much at all in the 1950's, Thailand became the cork in the bottle as to where the domino theory would end come 1975.

Besides Thailand Malaysia under the British also had fought and defeated the Malayan communist. Another cork in Southeast Asia to stop an communist advance out of the old French Indochina area. Most people and especially what is taught today overlooked how Malaysia and Thailand were beefed upped and the time Vietnam bought to beef them up where they could stand on their own. Not against China, but against Vietnam.

When it comes to the Vietnamese, 1978 was the turning point for me. That was when they invaded Cambodia and put a stop to the killing fields. I had once fought them, the North Vietnamese. But now they became sort of heroes for stopping Pol Pot. I really admire them. They did what was right.

 

I wouldn't call Thailand weak after WWII. It was disjointed because of opinions forming out of Thailand recognising the Vichy government of France. This could be one reason why Japan never invaded Thailand.

Vietnam also fought two wars at that time, against China and the Khmer Rouge in 1978-79.

Also what many people don't know is the US and Thailand gave the Khmer Rouge sanctuary and aid after the war with Vietnam.

 

I know that we did give the KR aid and sanctuary along with the Thai's. That really made me mad. That was Jimmy Carter's doings. If anything Carter should have been helping the NVA. I never looked at politics and our government the same way since. You do not let the KR and Pol Pot kill 2-3 million of their own people and then turn around and try to help them. I know it was all geopolitics. Basically the enemy of my enemy is my friend type deal. But it really sucked.

The Thai's allowed the Japanese in during WWII and were actually defacto allies. Although Thailand or Siam really did not have much choice. It was either do as the Japanese requested or be over run. Thailand actually declared war on the United States, but their Ambassador to the U.S. Seni Pramoj who would later become PM, refused to deliver it. Thus avoiding war with the U.S. and serious repercussions that would have happened when WWII ended.

Seni Pramoj along with the OSS at the time set up a Free Thai movement in the states and utilized them along with resistance movement in Thailand with pretty good success.

 

America supporting the Vietnamese in the Sino-Vietnamese War could've been seen as an act of aggression by China. I still see the US giving aid to the Khmer Rouge as school boy tactics. Here was one conflict America should have kept right out. It was always going to get ugly for the KR once Vietnam got involved. Once the Pol Pot started border squabbles with Vietnam was the start of their downfall. Khmer Rouge oppressing ethnic Vietnamese in the Parrot's Beak region of Cambodia were the beginnings of the death throes for the Khmer Rouge. In other words, don't fcuk with the Vietnamese.

 

That's one way to put it. I am not sure there was an official U.S. position in the China-North Vietnamese war. But I was rooting for the Vietnamese.

 

When it comes to the history of Vietnam, I always find myself wondering how many of the posters actually served there?

I was but a desk jockey and served both in the north and south during my single tour. The one thing I saw in both areas is that the common people didn't give a damned WHO ran things! All they wanted was the opportunity to put food on the table and clothes on the backs of their children.

I actually heard some of the Vietnamese who worked in my supply group complaining about how things were worse then compared to when the French were there!!!

 

I served in the Delta, June 1970 to June 1971, as "Vietnamization" of the war was implemented. I lived in a hospital compound, surrounded by recovering patients missing various hands, arms, feet and legs because of booby traps.

We had a good relationship with our 'hooch maids', nice Vietnamese young women. The very best gift you could give one was shampoo from the PX.

They liked us as persons, but resented that foreigners had invaded their country.