The War Is Getting More Dangerous for America, and Biden Knows It

As a general rule, I regard Thomas Friedman's punditry as of the vastly overrated variety. He is a closet authoritarian (and admirer of China's ability to get things done) and generally publishes little that seems unique or original; simply copy/pasting whatever the current party line is. So I was shocked by this opinion piece of his.

The War Is Getting More Dangerous for America, and Biden Knows It

First, The Times disclosed that “the United States has provided intelligence about Russian units that has allowed Ukrainians to target and kill many of the Russian generals who have died in action in the Ukraine war, according to senior American officials.” Second, The Times, following a report by NBC News and citing U.S. officials, reported that America has “provided intelligence that helped Ukrainian forces locate and strike” the Moskva, the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet. This targeting assistance “contributed to the eventual sinking” of the Moskva by two Ukrainian cruise missiles.

...The staggering takeaway from these leaks is that they suggest we are no longer in an indirect war with Russia but rather edging toward a direct war — and no one has prepared the American people or Congress for that.

I urge you to read the whole thing.

What's really surprising about this is that the current party line seems to be: Putin Bad-War with Russia Good. Since the party line is what Freidman does best, I'm surprised by his raising caution flags on US involvement. I assume he is one (like many posters here) who probably cried when Reagan was elected President because he thought Reagan would get us into war with Russia. But now we have an administration that is actively trying to get us in a war with Russia...they've been mostly cheering it on. So what happened to Friedman? Did the cognitive dissonance get to be to much?

 

How would one like Biden to spout off in a dementia rage with "I'll take Pootin behind the bleachers" or Pootin is a "lying dog-faced pony soldier" about now... Pootin is a grown up in a grown up world and a dementia ridden old man Biden has his finger on the nuke button... Throw in the Russia, Russia, Russia thing from that last 5 years and the fuse is getting shorter...
Does anyone think openly bragging about what we have done to get Russian solders killed a wise move?

 

We would destroy Russia. I’m not concerned

 

I fear you are staggeringly incorrect.

 

I’m not at all. Their nukes take longer to ready than ours. We also have hypersonic capabilities. We have the ability to strike them harder than they could ever strike us. They know that. Look at the hell Ukraine has caused them. We would demolish them if we really got involved.

The true scary part isn’t Russia. It’s China getting involved. They….. are the dangerous ones.

 

Look at yourself. You are arguing we could win a nuclear war.

Previously I thought there was only one other poster who had gone that far off the rails, but make that two.

 

No one wants a nuclear war. But they must know that we will use that stick if they do. If we refuse to use it or allow ourselves to be bullied at a Russian who is trying to be a bully it won’t turn out good for anyone anyway.

 

Never, ever, underestimate your enemy. Make it about something other than Russian aggression and the game changes. To invade another country is suicide.

 

How is Russia bullying us into war?

 

That assumes that we would be capable of destroying all of Russia's nuclear weapons including those at sea in submarines or ships. The horror of even a single nuclear weapon destroying one of our large cities is a horror beyond comprehension. Then on the top of that, the nuclear radiation from our own nuclear weapons would reach us in a day or so. A nuclear confrontation is to be avoided at nearlly all costs.

 

They’re threatening every country around them
With nuclear war. If you let that scare you then you may as well just hand them Europe

 

I'm glad I did cuz you've largely misrepresented what it says. You made no mention of how livid Biden was about the leaks. Nor the assertion Putin already knows we are supplying arms and intel. Furthermore, your characterization of what you claim is the "party line," Putin Bad-War with Russia Good gets it half wrong, IMO. How did you arrive at the conclusion the admin thinks war with Russia is good given the possibility Vlad may decide to use nuclear weapons?
Allow me to ask, which camp are you in? The one that believes Biden is screwing up because he is doing too much to help Ukraine.
Or the one that believes Biden is screwing up because he is doing too little to help Ukraine. The starting point for each being no matter what Biden is doing he's screwing up.

 

The question I asked is how Russia is bullying US into war?

You can't seriously think that Russia presents a military threat (other than the omnipresent nuclear one) to Europe? Do you really think the mighty Russian war machine could roll over Europe? This isn't the 1980's where there was a real threat of Russia bursting through the Fulda Gap and roll it's armies to the Atlantic. Russia couldn't even get to the Fulda Gap now. Besides, those countries are NATO countries.

 

I never said they were bullying us into war. What I’m saying is if the world caves to the threat of nuclear war, you may as well hand them Europe

no I don’t think they are a threat… lmao that’s what I have said this whole thread. And now you seem to agree with me on that point.

 

Nope, I don't believe I did misrepresent the opinion piece. I obviously didn't copy the whole thing but I'm unclear how the part you highlighted, that Biden was furious about the leaks, changes anything when you consider what was leaked; that the US is helping the Ukrainians specifically target Russian generals. Of course he didn't want that out, but I suspect the Russians knew anyway. Biden didn't want us to know about that, since that's a serious escalation in our participation in the war.

One can imagine how the US would react to Russians helping the Taliban target US senior officers in Afghanistan or helping Iranian backed groups target US senior leadership in Iraq.

The fact is, we are quickly going from providing beans and bullets to being an active combatant in a war with Russia. You asked what camp I'm in, so I'll tell you: I'm in the camp that thinks this is an insane foreign policy move that is damaging to US national security and could result in us getting into a shooting war with Russia.

 

You actually did say that.

 

That doesn’t translate into bullying us into war. That translates to them trying to bully us out of war. If we allow ourselves to be scared by the prospect of a nuke they will get what they want every time. Maybe I wasn’t being clear enough

 

No one will win in a nuclear war... the loser will be the one that lost the most..

 

No one will win against Russia aggression if we allow the idea to scare us into a corner either. It’s like throwing the towel just because they have nukes. So you’re effectively arguing that any country that has a nuke should be allowed to do whatever they want.

 

Our Rods from God would take them out. We would never even have to launch a nuke.

And most of their weapons are obsolete and inoperable.

 

What material impact does us knowing about it have on whether our involvement is getting more dangerous?

 

Clearly, that is not what's happening.

 

You say that now but do you really think Russia won’t win the war in Ukraine? They are obviously not waltzing through with ease largely due to other countries contributing with weapons. But While that may slow Russia it won’t stop them because we are not giving them the means to fight in the air. I do think if the status quo does not change they will lose a slow loss.

 

My remark was directed at this........if we allow the idea to scare us into a corner

 

No….not trying to argue….. Just making the point nukes will be ugly for all … American will see up close and personal what has just been a look at war through the TV. And the fact there will be the everlasting contamination on our soil making parts unusable.