The War on Drugs is a War on Innocent People

Discussion in 'Drugs, Alcohol & Tobacco' started by Sonofodin, Oct 8, 2011.

  1. Sonofodin

    Sonofodin New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The drug war has and will continue to be a complete and utter failure. It has had no significant impact on drug use and caused much more harm than good.

    Why does prohibition cause more crime, you may ask? It's a simple matter of economics. When a good or service is in demand and their are materials available to provide a supply for those goods, trading of those goods will occur. When you make drugs illegal, it doesn't stop the trade from going on, it merely drives it underground.

    Instead of being sold in stores and available to purchase safely and at a reasonable price, a violent black market has emerged as result of prohibtion.
    If people want to use drugs, they will. Making it illegal just artificially drives the price up and the huge amount of enforcement of drug laws makes the business even more dangerous.

    Keeping drugs like heroin for instance, illegal increases the risk of overdose and health problems tenfold.

    This is what Heroin looks like after it is synthesized:

    [​IMG]

    This is street heroin:[​IMG]

    Notice the color?

    Dealers cut it with dangerous additives that can be harmful to inject and may cause health problems.

    It is also harder to get clean needles because of heroin's illegality. This increases the spread of blood-borne illnesses among users.

    Heroin in its pure form along with mostly all other opioids, causes absolutely no organ damage whatsoever, the only adverse health effects are from overdose which can cause respiratory depression and withdrawal symptoms. Even then, it takes many hours to die after overdosing, and the person can be instantly revived with a dose of Narcan.

    Instead of giving addicts a chance to heal and recover, we treat them like criminals and send them to prison. This only increases their chances to reuse drugs. Why should the government be able to tell you what you can put inside your body? If you don't hurt anyone else, then it should be allowed.

    Also, children can get their hands on drugs much easier when they're illegal. Drug dealers don't card, supermarkets and stores do.

    The war on drugs is a war on innocent people, don't support it.
     
  2. Sonofodin

    Sonofodin New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Because this subforum is dead, I am reposting this in the Political opinions and belief forums. Mods, please lock this thread.
     
  3. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,073
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Colombia Drug Lord Wanted By US Gunned Down By Police...
    :fart:
    Colombian drug lord wanted by U.S. for supplying tonnes of cocaine to Mexican gangs is shot dead by police
    2nd January 2012 - Juan de Dios Usuga wanted by U.S. for trafficking; Four top lieutenants captured in early-morning raid; President tweets: 'What a good start to the year'
    See also:

    12,000 Killed In Mexico Drug Violence In 2011
    2 Jan.`12 — About 12,000 people were slain last year in Mexico’s surging drug violence, according to grim tallies reported Monday by the country’s leading media outlets. Annual indexes of torture, beheadings and the killing of women all showed increases.
     
  4. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,603
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So I suppose then the war on child sex traffiking is a war on innocent people as well? And so too the war on illegal animal fighting? And so too every other hienous criminal activity? There is an imperative to prohibit certain things. Yes, these things will still go on, but the mere fact of something being illegal with serious penalty does stop many people from partaking. This is a simple and proven fact. The question is where to draw the line.
    And pharmaceutical companies do not cut pure drugs with other "impurities"?

    Heres what DXM, (active cough suppressant ingredient) looks like pure.
    [​IMG]


    Heres what you buy over the counter.

    [​IMG]

    Notice the color? Pharmaceutical companies add impurities which make it more dangerous for people to get high off of cough medicine.
    Incorrect. Here is but one wikipedia article about need exchange programs which allow old needles to be exchanged for new ones, but many of them simply give away clean and new needles.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Needle-exchange_programme

    Also, many drug stores have sold needles in 4 packs and 10 packs. Its not the needle thats illegal its the drug.
    Yes, aside from the physical addiction which cause many addicts to do whatever they can to get more of it no matter what the cost to their health or their freedom or other peoples safety, yes, its a fairly safe drug provided it is not used in excess.
    People do hurt others when using this drug. There are many victims involved, to suggest otherwise is simply foolish. While in prison there are many programs and therapeutic communities to go through (many which are mandatory) also programs like drug treatment court allow for people who commit crimes relating to drug use to get out of jail and possibly eliminate their felonies by completeing the program. Sadly, the completion and success rate is low. This is not because they are "treated like criminals" but because you may only do so much for a person, they must want to quit drug use themselves. As a three time convicted felon who has served time in state prison I can tell you about all these programs.
    And parents are so responsible and lock up their alcohol? Not in most the households I have frequented. Most of the time its kept in the refrigerator. Junkies typically do not forget where they put their drugs, they usually do them within moments of the transaction. Considering they will get sick from withdraw if they do not use them ,it is more unlikely for a child to get heroin then for a child to get a cold beer.
     
  5. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,073
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Cartel violence is here: Teen tortured, beheaded in Oklahoma...
    :omg:
    Cartel violence is here: Teen tortured, beheaded in Oklahoma…press silent
    January 8, 2012 -- On December 21, Bethany Police Chief announced the arrest of Francisco Gomez, 31, who has been charged with multiple drug trafficking charges and is believed to have knowledge of the grisly murder of 19-year-old Carina Saunders.
    See also:

    Virginia has become stronghold for MS-13
    March 2, 2011 - MS-13 (or Mara Salvatrucha) was formed by Salvadoran, mostly illegal immigrants in the 1980’s, during El Salvador’s civil war. While the gang was originally made up exclusively of Salvadorans, they now accept all Central Americans as well as Mexicans. MS stands for Mara (slang for mob), Salva (El Salvador), Trucha (slang for on-guard).
    Remember, when you buy drugs - you support the cartel side of the war on drugs.
     
  6. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,603
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Isnt uncle ferd in a cartel.
     
  7. dreadpiratejaymo

    dreadpiratejaymo New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    When you support the prohibition of drugs, you support the cartel side of the war on drugs.

    The stories you are sharing would have never happened if drugs were legal. People wouldn't have to do business with these dubious characters if the laws against drugs didn't exist.
     
  8. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,603
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Incorrect.
     
  9. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    16,238
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A person who values freedom and recognizes that individuals own themselves considers whether the activity in question involves the involuntary cooperation of another, or force or fraud against another. Child trafficking harms children. It is a crime whether government recognizes it as such or not. The ingestion and sale of substances is not a crime when buyer and seller are engaged in voluntary exchange.

    Putting people in cages for engaging in activities where there are no identifiable victims is a crime. Your goal may be to reduce what you deem to be immoral behavior (getting high or being dependent on a substance), but two wrongs do not make a right, and committing wrongs in order to achieve a "good" end only creates the sort of moral hazards that we have today and leads to a punitive society that has forgotten morals and embraces tyranny.
     
  10. dreadpiratejaymo

    dreadpiratejaymo New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the detailed explanation.
     
  11. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,603
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Considering.....I apologise for the low content post. There would be just as many stories. When something like a drug is sold over the counter it makes it seem all the more socially acceptable. And safe. Its why so many kids end up overdosing on the legal over the counter drugs. They do not think they can be much more dangerous than cigarettes. The dubious characters would simply be the cigarette outlets and gas stations selling crack and stems out of vending machines. I dont the libertarians would want the federal government involved in distribution so it would be private business men. You think its going to be pure and safe and usage is not going to increase. I say its more difficult for many kids to get heroin than it is for them to get a bag of synthetic weed from around the corner. It follows as many kids are smoking the stuff.
     
  12. dreadpiratejaymo

    dreadpiratejaymo New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    People that want to use drugs don't really care if it is socially acceptable. If we were playing that game, I would be the first to claim that society is not acceptable to me for many other reasons that have nothing to do with drugs.



    Kids overdose on Legal OTC drugs when they are trying to commit suicide, not when they are trying to have fun.

    Yeah, it would be completely unregulated, just like alcohol and tobacco are now...

    It would be more pure and more safe, but use will stay about the same or go down. Here is a nice article about the success of decriminalization in Portugal:

    http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

    That's just simple supply and demand. Weed is a much more attractive drug than heroin. It doesn't turn you into an addict.
     
  13. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    18,921
    Likes Received:
    445
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Anyone who advocates for the legalization of Heroin is a true dirtbag who either never lost a friend or loved one to that (*)(*)(*)(*)ed drug or doesn't care if they do.

    This isn't about "God" or some kind of "moral imperative". I'm not a Christian and I don't have some kind of temperance belief. This isn't about temperance or virtue.

    This is about keeping the worst kind of poison out of the hands of as many people as possible, a poison that makes you feel great but kills you just as dead as cyanide and makes you a slave to it.

    It is pernicious, creeping evil that makes you so sick when you can't access it that you are willing to kill rather than go without. It is an awful substance and a bane to humanity the world over.

    You think abortion clinics see violence? See what happens if corner stores start selling heroin like they do weed in California. Before long, as kids start to succumb to the disease, American parents will enter the streets with torches and firebombs and burn those places to the ground. I guarantee it!

    Are the Police going to stand up in riot gear to protect the private property of corner headshops selling heroin like they do weed in California? Probably not.

    I hope that if ever the day comes that Heroin is legalized that parents band together and riot in violence and destroy any shop that ever sells the disease... and I will be right there next to them.

    (*)(*)(*)(*) a heroin addicts "rights".
     
  14. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,603
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Incorrect.
    Incorrect.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-meitiner/bath-salts-new-drug-old-problem-_b_818955.html
    I know. That was my point.
    Incorrect.
    This article does not prove anything running contrary to my claims.
    Thats because its much more socially acceptable. Also, the means of consuming it is more attractive.
     
  15. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,073
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A pox on all houses...
    :omg:
    Drug money damages world economy by $2 trillion annually
    Friday 27th January, 2012 - Annual financial damage to the world economy from drug money equals $2 trillion, Russia's Federal Drug Control Service head Viktor Ivanov said.
     
  16. dreadpiratejaymo

    dreadpiratejaymo New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,362
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Says you?

    You do realize that bath salts are not an OTC drug. Right?

    My statement was tongue in cheek as alcohol and tobacco are both very heavily regulated.

    Says you?

    Are you not claiming that decriminalization would be bad for society?

    So Heroin turns you into an addict because it's not socially acceptable?

    :confuse:
     
  17. marbro

    marbro New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    whether you believe alcoholism and drug abuse is a crime or a medical issue, how has the federal government helped at all? Billions spent here and abroad to fight it and I have never heard of a city where drugs are not prevelent.

    The big RED FLAG is the price

    If the price stays low and its easy to get that means only one thing

    Demand is being met and the market is being saturated. The feds have failed to use our tax money to stop the drug problem.

    As bad as heroin is , I would think beheadings and daily drive by shootings is far far worse.
     
  18. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    16,238
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I've just been reading a Sinclair Lewis novel, 'Babbitt", written in 1922. He briefly mentions an account of a cocaine dealer who shoots a prostitute "casually" in a bar after she throws her drink at him. 1922 - just 12 years after cocaine was made an illegal drug by the Harrison Narcotics Act. Here we are 90 years later, and the crime and damage is even worse. Those who advocate for the war on drugs are deluded. All we've lost is liberty, money, countless lives, and for what? More of the same.

    Drugs need to be relegalized.
     
  19. Caeia Iulia Regilia

    Caeia Iulia Regilia New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's not true. What happens with the legalisation of drugs is that they become much more commonplace, so you essentially replace one bad thing with another. Right now, it's relatively easy for a kid to get his hands on alcohol despite stringent controls on alcohol sales to minors. The reason is simple. When alcohol is illegal, a person must jump through lots of hoops to get his hands on it. He has to go to the bad side of town, find a drug-pusher, pay $100 for his stash, all while looking over his shoulder. It's not a casual purchase by any means, and also not something that the average citizen would have in his house. With alcohol, you buy it casually -- at gas stations, at wal-mart, at the grocery store, etc. You probably have some in your house right now. So ask yourself, which is more likely that your kids are gonna try? The drugs -- with all kinds of barriers (including the issue of not having a driver's liscence), or the alcohol in your liquor cabinet?

    That's the problem of legalization -- it makes the drug much more common and much more likely to be first used at younger and younger ages. It becomes a casual product that you buy alongside milk and eggs and bread. Kids see mom and dad use it, thus reducing the stigma of the drug for kids. Kids eventually don't even need to leave the house to get it -- dad's heroin would be as accessable as his vodka or rum. That's not a good situation considering how addictive these drugs can be.
     
  20. Black Monarch

    Black Monarch New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,213
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You seem to be forgetting the part where prohibition doesn't stop the junkies from getting their drugs.

    You also seem to be forgetting the likelihood that sales of such powerful drugs would be age-restricted, just like alcohol and tobacco.
     

Share This Page