The World to Come

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Striped Horse, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Democracy is never valid, always a farce, and inevitably leads to a dictatorship, if not of one man, than whosever gang is the largest.
     
  2. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why is it that Norway with its nationalized oil industry isn’t starving to death, while Venezuela with its nationalized oil industry can’t even feed its lab rats?

    And if America and it’s corporate control of the government :roflol:is so hell bent on destroying socialism where ever it rears it’s ugly head, why hasn’t she demanded Norway’s expulsion from NATO, and regime change for its government?

    Could it be because Norway’s population isn’t starving to death. And is the reason it’s not starving to death because it’s economy is still predominantly capitalist?

    Could it be America is only interested in regime change when leaders of nations turn their countries into a cemeteries?

    What angers me most about some on this board is how they can be so morally outraged at a perceived violation of the Holy Grail, Democracy; but feel no outrage, no revulsion, no indignation at the two men most responsible for taking the richest nation in South America and turning it into a ghetto of mass starvation, a ghetto that rivals that of Warsaw under Nazi occupation. Those two men are Chavez and Maduro, not Trump and Bolten.

    While you so-called “concerned souls” for democracy wring your hands...shake your fingers...cry your tears...and argue about who voted for whom, men, women, and children are dying...and the one responsible is walking around free, smoking Cuban cigars.

    There is no hell hot enough to grant you the justice you deserve.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  3. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    Eleuthera that was obvious, even to someone who hadn't studied every article and every amendment for a long time. You wanted me to waste an hour of my life and when I declined you harangued me for not doing so to try to provoke me to do so.

    I have been explaining why I processed your challenge as obvious. And if you think that is a smart method of debating, rather than a cheap, juvenile, deceitful piece of crap, then please take your childish pranks elsewhere. We were not involved in a polemic exchange, or even a culture war scrap, in fact you were saying "I agree with you but...". If you think there is the slightest honesty in a puerile attempt to try and trap someone who is engaging in discussion with you and then following it up over and over again so that you can have a pathetic "gotcha ha ha" moment, then you are deluding yourself.

    99% of exchanges on here end up with a good old culture war. It's enjoyable for a time calling down fire and brimstone on numskulls who cannot express themselves without grunting. But now and again someone engages in a serious discussion (and its usually someone who disagrees with me on some things, if not most). I mistook you for someone in the latter category. My mistake. I make that mistake a lot but hey ho.

    But hey, kudos to you for being honest that you were trolling, even if you think it's "honest".
     
  4. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's actually a good point although there must be other factors in any country other than those covered by their constitution. But any way you look at it starting wars, funding wars, toppling governments, inserting puppet regimes, assassinating politicians and/or their opposition, creating armies (read terrorist organizations) and going abroad to fight wars cannot be described as "national defense". So you are right- justification for such cannot be found in your constitution nor can it be found in the book Democratic Principles or even in "Honest Joe's Book of Decency and Fair Play". So I wonder ... what side of the GOOD GUY - BAD GUY line do you think the U.S. should stand?

    The present situation is the same as when War-shington made its' plan to assassinate Fidel Castro, Mohammad Mosaddegh, Olaf Palme, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Moammar Ghadaffi, and Bashar al-Assad. The present is a set-up prelude to the show. The present is the political difficulties in Venezuela which have been orchestrated by War-shington in its' preparations to the finale. Both Castro and Assad were rescued in the nick of time by the Russians. Now .... what about Manduro?
    If it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck. If the U.S. is involved in a foreign nation's affairs, a government that just happens to be willing to shitcan the dollar as its currency of preference, there is probably manipulation and treachery afoot. You can bet it's a duck.
     
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  5. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    Norway is a constitutional monarchy. That means, according to the usual politicalforum numskullery, that it has a King who decides everything and its citizens are just desperate to leave their storied land behind and come to the USA, where there is freedom and they can escape from feudal subjugation.

    It's largest political party for the last hundred years, for most of which it was the government, was the Labour Party, a social democratic (i.e. dirty commy Euro liberal scumbag) party.

    But you don't somehow take that tone now?

    It's good to see conservatives starting to embrace the notion that some nations have capitalist systems, freedom and democracy, and still work well enough, even though the word "social" is vaguely associated with them. Welcome to the world of regulated capitalism, with sensible public policy towards infrastructure, high taxes and extensive welfare.

    Norway's a bit too left wing for me, but it's not got a bad record.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  6. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    Duplicate
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  7. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :laughing: I suspect that American schools have left out the study of political science (with respects monarchy) and today simply draw the blinds, switch off the lights and roll 1950's black & white films starring the likes of Danny Kaye and Eroll Flynn ..... and leave it at that.

    What with Norway (my best neighbour) being one of the top Democracies in the whole wide world, I take some annoyance with you calling social democracy "scumbag". Our social democracy has enjoyed top Democratic ranking (along with Norway) and is considered one of them. TAKE NOTE: The party referring to itself as Social-Democracy (here in Sweden) has lost its way ever since the CIA murdered Olaf Palme and we no longer enjoy the full Social-Democratic philosophy under his guidance. In fact, the Sweden Democrats (unfairly slandered as neo-Nazis and racists) is today, more Socialist and more Democratic than any other existing party in Sweden. So ...... if you insist on trashing any political party please dot the "i's" and cross the "t's" because the Social Democratic Party (in Sweden) is as Socialist and as Democratic as Stalinism was anti-Fascist.
    You are being awfully honest.

    DEMOCRACY INDEX 1.jpg DEMOCRACY INDEX 2.jpg
     
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  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here is the part I was questioning whether you agreed with

    You are unaware that the US can and has been interfering with Venezuela.

    Chavez gave the indigenous people rights which they did not have before.
    Cannot have the indigenous, non white people having rights now can we?

    https://www.blackagendareport.com/racist-imperialist-war-venezuela

    Since Chavez a non white giving rights to indigenous people was elected, the US has been supporting the White Opposition I hear by around $4,000,000 a year including the coup attempt of 2002. (Hark how the US gets upset at even the idea of Russia in any way messing around in their elections when they do this to a much greater degree themselves)

    As it would appear you are totally unaware of what is and has been going on between your country and Venezuela, it may help you to read this article and discover that Venezuela was not the rich country your dear leader says it was before Chavez came to power. In reality it was not much different economically to how it is today.

    https://revista.drclas.harvard.edu/book/venezuela-1980s-1990s-and-beyond






     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  9. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not only did the US survive the Civil War but they defeated Fascism, Communism and Nazism while remaining a Super Power and the most popular destination for immigrants from all over the world.

    Predictions about the End Of America and The American Dream are as common as snow flakes and should be taken as a continuation of the same silliness that's been going on for almost 250 years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  10. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :above: :nod: :above:
    An excellent response, Alexa.
     
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  11. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure you got the irony.
     
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  12. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, the U.S. survived the Civil War ... theirs' but not other's. But on the matter of Fascism, Communism, and Nazism .... you are wrong. The U.S. (particularly under Bush Baby Junior's regime) has become a Fascist State, no "survival" with that. Communism is still alive in several nations and there is so much dissatisfaction with the broken promises made by Radio Free Europe that many are considering Communism back in former communist nations. Nazism, well I guess it's in the definition. Neo-Nazism, in the form of Nationalist fervour against Globalism, still persists to a small extent and may gather steam. It is uncertain.
    This is debatable and almost certainly not true. One single minor city in Sweden took more refugees from Irak and Afghanistan than the WHOLE U.S. took the whole time.
    Fetch me my pipe, sit here on my knee and let me explain some the more durable lessons of history and empires, my son.
     
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  13. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I got the irony in the first part but I may not have been completely convinced of it in the second part. I am now, thank you.
     
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  14. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

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    The US has become a 'fascist state', huh? That pretty much ends any attempt at rational discussion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  15. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

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    Are you saying Norway is one of the top democracies in the world because it, like Sweden, is mostly White?

    Do you have any evidence that the CIA murdered Olaf Palme - while the Swedes stood around helplessly waiting for someone else to act? When any country's incompetence is internationally displayed, as in this case, they eventually blame it on the CIA, or a US President. Swedes used to be smart.
     
  16. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

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    You must admit Fred, with the US it's 'Do as I say or else!'?
     
  17. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is a very naïve statement. We've been applying sanctions against Venezuela for years. We've been trying to make their economy fail for years. Our efforts have been successful.
     
  18. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not true.

    The US Constitution has a provision authorizing Congress to declare war, and it has been used in years gone by. That makes a formally declared war legal.

    What we are doing to Venezuela is illegal under the Constitution, and illegal under international law to which we are signatory.
     
  19. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Banned

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    Revealing what you consider to be evidence.
     
  20. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    What is a better model to take its place? Why do we pay so much lip service to it?
     
  21. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well I understand and appreciate your rant, but I'm curious if you've discovered a legal foundation for our actions in Venezuela?
     
  22. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    They hardly defeated them since they still exist.

    Well communism and fascism do, Nazism isn't really an ideology since it was only applicable to, well, the Nazi's.
     
  23. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Banned

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    ????? What are you babbling on about now. What sanctions on Venezuela. Weve been Venezuela's biggest customer.
     
  24. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    Technically that is incorrect.

    Until a law is established based on something in the constitution there is nothing legally binding in it.

    While the constitution is considered law it is based on principles that laws will follow rather than actual laws with punishments for failure to comply.

    For instance, to this day we still do not know the exact reasoning behind "to declare war", many believe it has nothing to do with actually going to war and since the Court has never ruled on it then it is not legally binding.

    The only way for a military action to be illegal is if it violates some congressional law already passed such as the War Powers Act.
     
  25. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Banned

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    To "declare war" . we are looking for the Constitutional authority to wage war.
     

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