The World to Come

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Striped Horse, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. Spooky

    Spooky Banned Donor

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    Why?

    The constitution is a set of limits on the government so if they aren't limiting the ability to go to war then that would be your authorization.

    The constitution doesn't tell us what's permissible it tells us what's not for the most part.
     
  2. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your knowledge of our actions against Venezuela for the last several years, and of our efforts in 2002 to overthrow Chavez, is non-existent.
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Pure sophistry Spooky. Your knowledge of the US Constitution is abysmal, but that makes you perfectly normal in this country today, perfectly average.
     
  4. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Constitution DOES tell us what is permissible, and it does tell us what is forbidden for the government it creates.

    An example is Article I Section 8, including its last sentence: To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution THE FOREGOING POWERS....
     
  5. Spooky

    Spooky Banned Donor

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    Exactly, "to make all laws" which we wouldn't have to make if they were already in the constitution.

    And if going to war is illegal per the constitution then doing so would be a clear violation of law so why haven't any presidents been arrested and convicted of doing so?
     
  6. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    What actions of the USA did I actually call for? What actions need legal foundations?

    I support the statements by governments around the world recognising Guido as President of Venezuela whilst he organises elections. I actually would be very suspicious of any actions by the USA. I have made this clear bit you still persist.

    Your little hobby horse is irrelevant. Why keep trolling?
     
  7. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    No president has been convicted crimes because there is really is no rule of law in this country. Bush & Co were convicted of war crimes in Malyasia in 2014, but not in this country. Brennan, Clapper and others can commit perjury before congress and not be punished because there is no rule of law in this country.

    Going to war is NOT illegal WHEN the government follows the law. It is illegal when the law is not followed.
     
  8. Spooky

    Spooky Banned Donor

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    So what is the law regarding war per the constitution?

    Under what conditions does it tell us it is allowed?

    Since you are the constitutional expert here this should be easy for you.
     
  9. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Because you keep replying?

    You have called for no actions, but you condone and rationalize the illegal actions of others. You like the mob, the herd, but I'm more independent than you. I understand that when everybody is thinking the same way, nobody is thinking.
     
  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    The law requires that Congress declare war. A war that follows is then legal, for better or for worse, but it's legal.

    Under Article II of the document, and as described by FDR in the last century, POTUS can certainly and legally WAGE war, but he must as some point explain to Congress what he has done and why. That principle was further refined and supported by the War Powers Act in 1973, and Congress has ignored that law on subsequent occasions. To my knowledge WPA has never been invoked, obeyed, or further discussed in Congress.
     
  11. Spooky

    Spooky Banned Donor

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    The power to declare war is a procedural one for congress, it does not have any application towards the president.

    When it was added it was done so because congress obtained certain abilities only in the time of war. The power to raise funds, raise an army increase taxes for war, and certain other new laws that were only available to them in wartime.

    Hence a declaration of war was needed for this.

    None of those things apply to us today so there is no need for congress to declare war which is a reason they passed the war powers act, which, according to you, shouldn't be needed anyways since you claim it is within the constitution.

    It appears it's not me who has a lack of constitutional knowledge.
     
  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your ignorance of the document, as demonstrated by this post, is astounding though typical.

    We're done, and have a good day.
     
  13. Spooky

    Spooky Banned Donor

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    Yes run away because you realize you are wrong.

    By the way, if you would like a list of statutory authorizations that are released upon a declaration of war by congress you can look at this document.

    These are only available to congress once they declare war.

    Just further evidence of my point.

    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL31133.pdf
     
  14. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Well, that was long on vague generalities, void of any specifics.
     
  15. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Better Model: A republic with a constitution based on individual rights. Citizenship would be earned, and only citizens who can pass a test, and are solvent, would be granted permission to vote, and only to elect representatives.

    Why the lip service: The morality of altruism, i.e., self-sacrifice for the good of all. Democracy fits that ideal beautfully.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  16. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    Which illegal actions by the USA have I condoned? I see you are just making it up now.
     
  17. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Part of your model we already have, a republic with a constitution based upon individual rights and enumerated government powers.
     
  18. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    You condone what we and others are doing in Venezuela today, and for quite a few years. What we've been doing there and elsewhere is illegal under international law, but you have rationalized it as humans do when authorities splash propaganda all over the news media.
     
  19. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you think so? yours on the other hand illustrated nil knowledge.
     
  20. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, if you are unaware of the Fascist elements of American politics then you most certainly will have no earnest or 'rational' input to contribute in that theoretical 'discussion'. Suit yourself, I'm easy.
     
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  21. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    I have not condoned any action by the USA except for recognising a different Head of State to Maduro and using diplomatic means to argue for that. I have explained painstakingly why I support that one thing. I have asked you what illegal actions the USA is doing in Venezuela and you have been silent. I've even asked you for hypothetical future actions, indicating that it would be very hard for me to think of circumstances where I would support US military action. You ignore all this and just decide to make your conclusion without any evidence and contrary to all the discussion we have had.

    I paid you the respect of entering into a detailed explanation of why I supported one action. You responded by trolling, lying and making things up. It's a learning point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  22. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What? What are you talking about?
    It's too bad you do not understand Swedish. The finger of guilt points to the CIA by way of its' m.o. fingerprint and while all other leads peter out the one indicating the CIA is as open as a discarded can of chicken noodle soup in Betsy Ross' garbage bin.
    Not true. The government is saying nothing.
    Yes. But the Swedish post-Palme government has become War-shington's lap dog.
     
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  23. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would you care to point what part (in your deep and well-thought-out personal opinion) is without evidence?
     
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  24. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Baseless claims of "meddling and subversion" without any specifics are meaningless. One of the posters claimed weve been sanctioning Venezuela for years, but no one can point to these sanctions. You people just parrot what you have heard.
     
  25. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Journalist Paul Dobson:
    "We’ve seen the US government through its various agencies trying numerous different policies over the last 20 years since 1999. We’ve seen direct interference, we’ve seen indirect interference, we’ve seen funding, we’ve seen media campaigns, we’ve seen sanctions, we’ve seen international isolation and so on. It comes as no surprise to us here in Venezuela. It is worth pointing out that the US government, out of mere rumor of foreign intervention in the electoral system in the US, there is a massive outcry, a scandal. But it is fine for the US government to meddle with other governments, other sovereign independent countries. That for them is fine. And out of the mere whisper that the Russian or the Russian people got involved in the US elections – it is a national outcry. That shows hypocrisy of the US government, I believe."
    https://www.rt.com/news/438188-venezuela-us-meddling-hypocrisy/

    Author Brett Wilkins:
    "There isn’t a nation in the Western Hemisphere that hasn’t at one time or another found itself caught in the far-reaching tentacles of US imperialism. Venezuela is certainly no exception. Washington has been meddling in its internal affairs since the 19th century and it continues to do so to this very day, when the specter of yet another US-backed coup, or even a direct American military intervention, looms larger by the day."
    https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14263


    Alexander Main:
    The United States’ Hand in Undermining Democracy in Venezuela.

    "Trump’s unilateral and illegal financial embargo – which cuts Venezuela off from most financial markets – has had two major consequences, both of which entail increased economic hardship for the Venezuelan people. First, it causes even greater shortages of essential goods, including food and medicine. Second, it makes economic recovery nearly impossible, since the government cannot borrow or restructure its foreign debt, and in some cases even carry out normal import transactions, including for medicines."
    https://nacla.org/news/2018/05/18/united-states’-hand-undermining-democracy-venezuela

    Ken Livingstone blames US 'meddling' for Venezuela crisis:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...olas-maduro-democracy-sanctions-a7870781.html
     

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