This is about how we think, about what we are doing here.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by btthegreat, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    (mods I have absolutely no clue where a point this broad about 'debating' some very personally felt issues, should go in a debate forum subdivided by topic , rather than tactics and impacts of the process) move it wherever)

    I read this quote which I cannot yet attribute from a Youtube discussion video the topic of which I will not reveal. It was not attributed there, so I cannot give its author his or her due. I think it is an interesting and valuable take, to reduce some of the arrogance and heat in what we do and it provides a more empathetic and measured intellectual mindset that will benefit some who are willing to work on their approach to 'debate' matters affecting deep personal experience.

    Tell me what you think:
    When you debate a person about something that affects them more than you, remember it creates a much greater emotional toll on them than you, for you it may feel like an academic exercise. For them it feels like revealing their pain, only to have people like you, dismiss their experience and sometimes their humanity. The fact that you might remain more calm under these circumstances, is a consequence of your privilege, not your objectivity. Stay humble and open to their pain to showcase your decency, as much as your debating prowess !
     
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  2. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Quite, that's why I dislike arguing about the existence of gods with religious friends. I have debated the existence of a deity in the past with religious friends and they were shaken by the exposed illogic and that you can lead a moral life without gods. Their faith is very important to them and who am I to take that away. It would be a cruel and egotistical act.
     
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  3. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I don't take a lot of time up trying to turn theists into atheists, but I will take up time to challenge stereotypes and bigoted assumptions of either theists or atheists, including this absurd idea that the only way to acquire a moral compass and allow it to lead you, is through theism. That is not about attacking religious people or their faith. Its about attacking a destructive and corrosive stereotype that does real harm to atheists and agnostics.
     
  4. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    But....if they come here they are are asking for their faith to be challenged and that can be arranged.
     
  5. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Not clear what you mean the way you wrote this. I think we can determine if they want their faith challenged by them asking for that specific debate in a thread designed to debate that very question. If they are here to debate say climate change, or economic policy or even school prayer, they are not asking to have their faith challenged, they are asking to debate climate change, economic policy or school prayer.
     
  6. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes indeed!
    Believers here are constantly harangued and their beliefs denigrated and atheists pick fights with them.
    Yet without any pejorative innuendo what so ever they lost it when I incontrovertibly proved in argument that their faith and beliefs is in fact a religion in substance!
    I have never seen Christians, Muslims, Buddhists or any other deity or even any other nondeity based faith lose it like they do when they cant win using 'valid' logic or reason, and are smoked out of one rabbit hole after the other.
    The reason I am an agnostic is because neither side will ever prove the existence and neither side will ever prove the nonexistence of G/god.
    It cant be done.
    Both theists and atheists in the final analysis are faith based. Pot meet kettle. Yet one side advertises intellectual superiority despite they have the same footing, faith in their beliefs and conslusions about the existence of G/god, and I like to be on the side of the most logically sound position.
    From what I have seen out here the disrespect and harassment is heavily weighted and leaning to one side in particular.

    What ever happened to turn the channel? If you dont like the program on channel x then go to channel y. there are thousands of threads here, why would any sane person hang with a thread where the words they read hurt their feelings?

    Forums are meant to argue in debate, if someone starts a fight then deal with 'one' who started the fight.

    Apparently the people getting all emotional and going into threads that 'hurt' their feelings enjoy hitting themselves over the head because it feels so good when they stop.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  7. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    It should be read in the context of my original statement.
    Oh yes indeed!
    Both the theists and atheists can be obnoxious and go on a rant. That only reveals what kind of person they are.
     
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  8. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    "Remember" is all well and good, but by the time you make it to a debate, pain, however real, is not a substitute for a real debate.
     

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