This is why the facts, no matter how you twist them, will not exonerate Trump

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump might be exonerated by a vote in the Senate. If there are not enough Republican Senators that place patriotism before partisanship, he'll be exonerated by the Senate. But not by the facts.

    All they need is an excuse.... Not matter how ridiculous, just one excuse to vote to save him. This is why the twist the Ukraine affair. To try and find something that they can use as an excuse. So far, they haven't been able to come up with a credible excuse. But they'll keep trying. In the end, they might even settle for just... any excuse...

    But there is one thing they can never explain away: And that's Article 2: Obstruction of Congress.

    Is there any doubt in anybody's mind that Trump has obstructed the investigation? Or does anybody doubt the words in the Constitution?

    Article I, Section 2, Clause 5
    "The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."

    Bottom line: Senators might try to use any excuse to exonerate Trump for his obvious abuse of power in the Ukraine matter. But how will they explain this away?
     
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  2. Socratica

    Socratica Well-Known Member

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    I'm really trying hard to figure out what your point is... What are you asking about?
     
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  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Am excuse like lack of evidence?
     
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  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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  5. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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  6. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    A review of a tiny fraction of the evidence against Trump. Trump fans have tendency to forget.

    “I would like you to do us a favor, though.”

    This is from the transcript of the July 25 phone call between Trump and Zelensky. It was provided by the White House. The following is a quote from Trump.

    Good because I· heard you had a prosecutor who· was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General.· :Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States,· the woman., was bad news and the people she was dealing with in.the Ukraine.were bad news so I jtist want to_let you know that. The other thing, there's a lot of.talk about Biden's son,. that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me.

    “What you’re describing is a quid pro quo,” asserted a reporter. “We do that all the time,” replied [Trump's chief of staff] Mulvaney. “Did he also mention to me the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about it. But that’s it. That’s why we held up the money … I have news for everybody: Get over it. There’s going to be political influence in foreign policy.” http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/mulvaney-ukraine-get-over-it.html

    After the July 25 phone call with Zelensky, as he usually does, Trump doubled down on the Biden investigation. On Oct. 3, in a news conference on the White House lawn, he called on Ukraine and China to look into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter.

    “If they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the Bidens,” Trump said when asked what he wanted Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to do about the former veep and his son.

    “They should investigate the Bidens,” Trump said. “Likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine.”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/03/trump-calls-for-ukraine-china-to-investigate-the-bidens.html
     
  7. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Senate has the sole power to try the impeachment. It should last about five minutes or so because of lack of evidence. The senate actually believes in fairness. Unlike the house who believes that just because there are few rules, they can do anything they want.
     
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  8. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    There is no getting around it. It is all well and good that Republicans can say Trump did nothing to cause his removal from office, but if the Republicans in the Senate exonerate Trump, if Trump's fans continue to insist impeachment is a sham, then the Republican Party and Trump's fans are saying:

    A) The President is permitted to ask for foreign interference in our elections to improve his chances of winning.

    B) The President is permitted to use military aid approved by Congress to a country fighting Russian aggression as a means of extortion to compel a foreign leader to comply with his wishes.

    C) To cover up his deeds, the President is permitted to use obstruction of justice.

    D) The President is permitted to ignore Congressional oversight as mandated by our Constitution.

    Is this what the Republican Party wants to be remember for?
     
  9. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  10. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    It would appear that Trump's fans are incapable of thinking beyond 2020.

    Throughout his entire President, a majority of Americans have disapproved of Trump's performance. Trump is the least popular President in modern American history. The GOP has lost several key elections in 2018 and 2019 and they lost control of the House because of Trump.

    In other words, in all likelihood Trump will lose in 2020.

    Trump's fans ignore all the evidence -- they avoid it, actually -- and insist that Trump is innocent. They are totally unaware of the consequences of that judgment.

    Most likely in 2021 a Democrat will become President. If not in 2021, then 2025, or at some point a Democrat will be in the Oval Office.

    If Trump is declared innocent of asking a foreign government to intervene in our election on his behalf, if Trump is declared innocent of using bribery as an incentive, if Trump is declared innocent of obstructing justice when he clearly defied Congress, then Democratic Presidents will be allowed to continue the practice.

    That possibility exists as early as Jan. 20, 2021. Do Trump's fans really want to grant that kind of power to Democratic Presidents?
     
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL, the dem clown show has not even included a quid pro quo in their impeachment articles. Why? A quid pro quo requires a quid an a quo. Dang that they have only one.
     
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  12. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Trump changed that on July 25th.
     
  13. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Historians will laugh at this impeachment attempt, if they remember it at all.
     
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  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean by no evidence of a quid pro quo?
     
  15. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Lack of evidence of ... what? Are you denying that Trump has stonewalled the House Impeachment investigation?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  16. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

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    With a vote.
     
  17. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Exactly my point: there is no excuse.

    So if Republicans vote to exonerate Trump, they will be changing the Constitution. And any President from either Party who has control over either one of the two houses of Congress.... Or even as little as support from just 35 Senators, will henceforth have unlimited power.

    Nice going, Republican Party! You have done away with the Republic. Will they change their name to "Monarchic Party"?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  18. Socratica

    Socratica Well-Known Member

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    My take on the first article is that this is a standard that they would need to prove falls within the category of "high crimes and misdemeanors."

    My take on the second is that it is nonsensical. They argue on page 6 that, "Donald J. Trump has directed the unprecedented , categorical, and indiscriminate defiance of subpoenas issued by the House of Representatives pursuant to its Power of Impeachment ." The President is allowed to do this; Congress doesn't have a right to anyone's time or resources. If they believe they do, settle it in court. Claiming that the President defied a subpoena without using the Judicial Branch is a misleading argument.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  19. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

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    Remember this headline from the Washington Post on Jan 20, 2017?

    Politics

    The campaign to impeach President Trump has begun

    The left have been impeaching Trump for 3 years and the DOW reacts with a 10,000 point gain. Can we please re-elect Trump and impeach him again in 2022 so my retirement can gain another 40%?

     
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  20. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Petitioning the courts is illegal?
    Do tell
     
  21. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Sssssshhhhh!
    They're trying to convince their ignorant wokesters
     
  22. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ain't Trump's problem the dem clown show has ignored procedure by letting the court decide the disagreement between Congress and the Administration on separation of powers.
     
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  23. SEAL Team V

    SEAL Team V Banned

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    I personally prefer the “Profit Making Party”.
     
  24. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    In the entire history of the world no man has ever been completely exonerated -- for example, Richard Jewell.

    When Trump is acquitted in the senate trial, all will know that he is not guilty.
     
  25. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nobody stopped any of those people from testifying, if they wanted to testify. They recognized it for what it was, a kangaroo court with no intention of getting to the truth about anything. The senate will look at it the same way.
     

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