This Whole Gender Thing

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by LibertarianFTW, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    10,545
    Likes Received:
    213
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Your conclusion was that they don’t know what it feels like based on the premise that you know what they feel. How can you know what it feels like to be gender dysphoric when you’ve never felt that, and yet you’re simultaneously claiming that they don’t know what it feels like to be a woman because they’ve never felt that. That’s circular logic and You’re contradicting yourself

    It begs the question: how do you know? The answer is you don’t. You’ve never felt gender dysphoria before because if you did you wouldn’t be making such ignorant comments about it.

    Already addressed in my previous post and you conveniently ignored it. If you’re just going to play games then this conversation is over.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  2. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,499
    Likes Received:
    4,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Never has been for me.
     
  3. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You just mentioned body language and then just called it fashion. Body language isn't fashion. Differences between men and women in our culture also include career choices, personality, sexual preferences and roles, hobbies, social activies, and much more. Its just far more than what you wear and I am surprised that anyone thinks its just fashion.
     
  4. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    31,941
    Likes Received:
    15,602
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you wasted our time complaining about something that isn't a problem. Got it
     
  5. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you are an "it"?
     
  6. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    6,654
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Trophy Points:
    113
    you understand that standards of normality shift and change with the times, yes?
     
  7. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,499
    Likes Received:
    4,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You wasted your own time, probably not uncommon.
     
  8. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    31,941
    Likes Received:
    15,602
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You clearly like to play games....no wonder you don't consider it a waste of time.
     
  9. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You understand that basic biology is settled science, yes?
     
    crank likes this.
  10. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,499
    Likes Received:
    4,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not so much, more like we grow more tolerant of abnormalities.
     
  11. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    6,654
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Trophy Points:
    113
    okay, well, if you define everything relative to yourself, of course you're always right, but that's dumb as hell so most people try not to do it. most people look at things like trends and history.

    you understand i'm not arguing over biology, but the interpretation of biological data, yes?
     
  12. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Biology is biology. What is there to interpret? Oh you mean you are ignoring facts.....
     
    crank likes this.
  13. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    6,654
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Trophy Points:
    113
    how do you think science works? do you think that people just walk into a room with some ****ing microscopes and look at slides with facts written on them that they then report?

    science is a community of millions of people observing data, recording it, publishing it, and then arguing over what the best conclusions to draw from that data is.

    you clearly lack the most basic in scientific literacy if you think that science is a monolithic gospel.
     
  14. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Puh-leeze, don't start with the splitting of hairs. Basic biology is known by most people. Even some kindergarteners:
    orxT971.gif
     
    crank likes this.
  15. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    6,654
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Trophy Points:
    113

    if you have no argument or defense beyond going "but im right because everyone knows im right" just shut the **** up already
     
  16. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    10,545
    Likes Received:
    213
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Sure. So what?
     
  17. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My argument is basic biology and you have no rebuttal.....you lose.
     
  18. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    10,545
    Likes Received:
    213
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    I remember when the republicans pretended to care about family values. At least their representives are now being honest about their disdain for the nuclear family
     
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  19. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    6,654
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if by "basic" you mean the most halfassed possible understanding, yes, your argument is basic biology.
     
  20. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOL! Basic stuff even a kindergartener understands....
    orxT971.gif
     
  21. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    6,654
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I mean, you -are- on par with a kindergartener
     
  22. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,003
    Likes Received:
    3,849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    From a scientific perspective, I have no doubt that there are some actual legitimate cases of a woman being born into a mans body and vice versa. In the case of hermaphrodites specifically, I would think that the diagnosis would be especially easy. In instances where this is a legitimate phenomena, I would personally support the choice of that person to take whatever medical steps that they deem necessary.

    With that being said, there is an inherent danger in overly normalizing this notion. By normalizing the concept of a trans gender, we are suggesting a solution to a wide range of psychologically troubled, confused people that are grasping desperately for an answer to their psychological problems. For sure SOME of those people will solve their problems by changing their sex, but just as sure, many others will be wrong, will still have their psychological problems, and to make matters worse they will then reside in a body that is now the wrong sex which will undoubtedly compound their problems exponentially. If you ask any clinically depressed person why they are depressed, they will always have an answer as to what is making them sad. Whether they say they are depressed because they lost a love, or that they lost a job, or that they are the wrong sex etc, their answer is wholly irrelevant. They are clinically depressed because they have clinical depression. People with clinical depression react poorly to the inevitable downs that happen in everyones life. The difficulty in separating the belief that a clinically depressed person is depressed because they are the wrong sex, versus them being a person that isnt clinically depressive and instead are just in the wrong body cannot be overstated.

    When a person has a headache, we do not automatically assume that they have a brain tumor. Before treating a brain tumor, we first exhaust every other possibility prior to making that determination. The same principle needs to apply to potential trans genders. In todays climate, it is my opinion that we are too quickly jumping to the conclusion that changing their sex will solve their problems. I happen to have a friend with a 15 yr old daughter, whom has just recently claimed that she is really a man. She has been going to a psychologist that specializes in such things, and this psychologist is suggesting that she immediately begin hormone therapy. The parents have refused, and this psychologist is painting the parents as out of touch dotards. I know this girl. She has always been troubled, and has in fact had a few legitimate suicide attempts starting at a young age. The notion that she is gay isnt surprising in the least, because she has always been one of those people that you can just tell from a very young age. I dont question her belief that she is gay. But I DO question how a HIGHLY troubled 15 yr old girl is qualified to make such a determination that she is really a man. How does any 15 yr old reliably distinguish between being a girl that likes girls, versus being a man that likes girls, especially considering her highly troubled background?

    I dont blame the parents. I would never support such a course of action for a 15 yr old, yet that is what is being suggested amongst todays Progressive Psychologists that specialize in this field. To me, that is an utter travesty. If a person gets well into their adulthood and after years of psychological testing still think of themselves as the opposite sex, then by all means, they should do what they have to do. The people that are over normalizing this notion are doing a great many of these people a huge disservice. You and many others seem to be arguing precisely for that course of action. I disagree with your position, while still realizing that some people probably are best served by changing their sex.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  23. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    6,654
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If a 15 year old doesn't know who they are, who the hell else does? Can you imagine a course of action more pointless than telling a teenager they aren't allowed to experiment with their identity? The fact is, you can't stop them.

    You should try listening to trans people after they transition. It works. Most of them have stories not unlike the son of those out of touch dotards you're friends with, because it turns out that living life as a gender you don't want to be results in you acting out a hell of a lot. It also tends to make you act out when you have parents who refuse to take your feeling seriously, which sounds like the case for your friends' son. All forms of transition short of actual surgical intervention can be reversed pretty easily, and it's not easy to get the surgery.

    If your friends really do have a daughter and not a son, they'll find out in short order just by actually listening and treating their child like they have a right to have some degree of autonomy, which they do. And if transition turns out to not make anything better, no permanent change has been made.

    Asking how you know that transition is right for someone is a perfectly legitimate question, and the answer is that you try it.
     
  24. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fwiw, there is such an abundance of available material on this subject. Frankly, it seems beyond belief that you really want to be educated on this topic by anyone on this forum.

    That said, From a common sense perspective your feelings seem indisputable.
    Of course from a common sense perspective the earth is flat; the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is bogus.

    Virtually all present day science violates what seems like common sense. It seems to me that no one would ever claim to be a different gender based on a casual whim... it is just so frigging inconvenient. Further, there have been people acting in this way for millennia, and across disparate cultures... so does not seem to be a conceit of ou time or culture. Therefore I am willing to give these people the benefit of the doubt no matter what my common sense tells me.
     
  25. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,499
    Likes Received:
    4,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If it takes a microscope to determine gender?
    Well right is right and that's all there is to it.
     

Share This Page