Thoughts On Impeachment...

I was thinking about this last night.

The way the whole impeachment process is set up, a Senator cannot say that he believes the President did something wrong without also saying that the President should be removed from office. It's all in the same vote.

Many people were saying that, while they believed what Trump did was wrong, it didn't warrant his being removed from office. Consequently, the only way to not vote to remove him from office is to vote "not guilty".

What if the system was such that there are two votes cast by each Senator. The first vote would be with regards to guilt; did he or did he not do what is alleged?

The second vote would be with regards to removal from office. This would allow a Senator to say "Yes, I think he did it, but I don't think it was severe enough to warrant his removal from office."

This would allow those who believe he's guilty, but don't think he should be removed from office, to say they believe he's guilty.

As it is right now, when November comes along, Trump can say "I'm not guilty", and a case cannot simply be made to the contrary. In my scenario, he would be running as a convicted President, and his opponents would surely get a lot of mileage out of that.

 

Impeachment was stupid. There was no crime and only served as a months long trump commercial.

It kept the DNC clown car off the news and solidified trumps base.

The DNC base is tired and defeated. Who remembers all the Democrats saying trump won't last 2 years. Blah blah blah...

 

Because the Senate trial is a trial to remove.....that is its purpose.

I do not care what these politicians opinions are. I care about the law and justice. Justice was done. A phony impeachment was rejected. That is all that matters.

 

And, yes, this would change that a bit.

It would allow a Senator to vote guilty, but also vote to keep the person in office. Frankly, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that there were GOP Senators who believed Trump was actually guilty, but were forced to vote "not guilty" because they didn't want him removed.

In BigSteve's world, they could do both...

 

That's called censure and many people think that's what democrats should have done instead of impeachment. I myself saw no wrongdoing and wouldn't even vote for censure but enough in the senate might have.

 

But censure isn't a finding of guilt, which is what many seemed was appropriate.

I would be willing to bet that some on the GOP side felt he was guilty, but voted "not guilty" because they didn't think it warranted being removed from office. As a result, the over-emotional left claims that Republican Senators are dismissive of Trump's conduct when, in fact, that may not be the case at all.

 

Steve, The system is and has been in place for a very long time, this time because they had no case the dems want it different.
All this has nothing to do with Impeachment, the Mueller Report, or any of the other dozen or so times our leftie poster friends told us "this is it".

This is all about the bitterness over losing in 2016 and multiplied 20x over the 2020 election which is a census report as well as the fact there will likely be two more Supreme Court Justices appointed.
The dems sadly miscalculated two things,
1. They let the crazies get into their party back in 2012-2016 and the current club of democrats under Pelosi have been incapable of controlling them.
2. They vastly underestimated the stupidity of impeaching a sitting president just a few months before election day.

This without question has been the democrats worst week since Appomattox and it continues to spiral downward.

 

Time was when the Democrat Party was a real American political party that actually did things for America. From the sixties on their ranks were supplanted by radical kooks who convinced some percentage of the population that America was evil. This evil they claimed was rooted in our European heritage, (code for white people) our religion, our morals, our values, our adherence to the rule of law, our self determination and acquisition of wealth by our own industry, all of the things that make America, America. It was never an exclusive fraternity and open to anyone regardless of race or creed providing they abided by these American values that have existed since the founding and are now written into our DNA. Malcontents and reprobates instead insisted that we make accommodations to their idle, immoral, lawless, godless lifestyles.They were championed by those radical kooks (grifters) who promised them the rewards of our industry without them having to invest sweat for it. They convinced them they were entitled to it and that we would resist that because we are evil. This is how the American left works and always has, it is how they promote socialism which is just a mechanism for acquiring power.The new face of this is the Democrat field of candidates for the presidency and the likes of AOC, Omar, Tlaib and Pressley, the latter group is grooming a whole new generation of entitled malcontents and we will never truly be America as long as this crap exists. A new day is dawning in America thanks to Donald Trump but we must never forget the vermin (Schiff,Nadler, Schumer,Pelosi and all of the aforementioned Democrats) that exists in our government. Real Democrats if any still exist must rid themselves of this scum if we are all to move on.

 

If they want to say they think he did wrong, they can exercise their freedom of speech afterwards.

 

Oh, I absolutely agree regarding the catalyst behind all of this.

But if a Senator believes that the act occurred, he could vote "guilty", and that would be entered into the record. That Senator could then be asked "Removal from office?" and, if he didn't feel it was warranted, he could vote that way.I dunno', this is just something that's been rattling around in my head for the last couple of weeks, so I thought I'd let it out...

 

No, they can't.

The Senators swear an oath to to fair conduct. If someone votes "not guilty", and then after the fact says "Yeah, I think he's guilty", that would be an admission that he had violated his oath by committing perjury...

 

No it wouldn’t. They may think he did something wrong that doesn’t warrant removal. They may also think the Articles are flawed. Etc, etc ...

 

"Wrong" is not necessarily an impeachable, and thus, removable offense.
So... No.

 

Substitute the word "guilty" for "wrong"...

 

Who cares what their opinion is? The Senate procedure has a purpose and giving opinion is not part of it. Guilty or not guilty is the choice.

 

Because...?

 

The impeachment effort was based upon the hoax that was Russiagate. It serves the Dems right that their hoax has turned around and bit them.

 

No Republicans [less the hero Mitt] would go on the record against trump. His supporters don't care that he is a thug criminal and Republican Senators know that. Republicans have declared that the president is above the law.

America is officially dead.

 

I just said goodbye to two of the smartest and most talented people I know. They are getting the hell out of the country.

I would leave if I could. But the split is coming. Support the right of secession.

 

If so, it cannot matter who wins in 2020.

 

While I applaud you for "thinking" I'm afraid there would be monthly trials by the opposing party because they would naturally think every move by the president was "wrong". I say either remove him or let him govern for his 4 years and then let the people vote again. A great system.

 

It's called "censure", and it fits the bill perfectly, but Democrats are greedy little piggy children, and they wanted the whole pie.

 

I understand that.

I think it's short sighted to say their opinion doesn't matter. I would insist, actually, that it's just the opposite. Their vote depends on their interpretation (or opinion) of the evidence provided...

 

Because "guilty" is a legal standard. "Wrong" is not...

 

You have what you're talking about in a censure. Impeachment is all about removal or the attempted removal of a president. Censure is a rebuke by congress of the president without removal.

The problem here is most Republicans thought Trump completely innocent. 66% believed there was no quid pro quo or abuse of power in dealing with the Ukraine, only 16% thought there was. On obstruction of Congress, 77% of all Republicans thought no while 11% thought Trump did. Questions 21 and 22

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/73jqd6u5mv/econTabReport.pdf

I would guess that with the 11 and 16% of Republicans who actually thought Trump did something wrong, that probably wouldn't be enough to even get a censure passed. The party breakdown in in the link on those questions.