Tips on how to help Democrats and Republicans have a better relationship

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lucky1knows, Sep 20, 2022.

  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's great. Hats off to you!

    But there are some very intolerant Progressives out there unfortunately. EG if an individual doesn't care for whole LGBT thing, they're regarded as sub-human by such bigoted types. Makes sense that would anger you, given you can't tolerate intolerance.
     
  2. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Dodge"? Are you serious? You asked for evidence and I sent you links and direct quotes.

    See? This is why I insist you do YOUR OWN research. You wasted my time! Please don't bother requesting anything in the future.

    You already told us you're here for "entertainment", and not seeking facts so... you won't be missing out anyway.
     
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  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Of course there are! Same deal as intolerant right wingers. No preferential treatment.
     
  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is no such thing as intolerance between people who share a brewski. You might want to try that instead of ethnic cleansing the next time you feel like you need to be around white people only.
     
  5. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    and each of the links was a mass of slogans, rumors, disinformation and your personal opinions.
    LOL, what jabberwocky - I asked YOU to prove your claim that your responses are based on facts - you proved the exact opposite
    And there you go again. I told you that stimulating and informative discussions was ENTERTAINING - somehow you left that part out. So don't try to claim you base your posting on facts alone - that would be false. A real cheap shot,
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    What does ethnicity have to do with cohesion? It's just an imutable .. like height. Not relevant at all.
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    So you DO think 'diversity' is about skin tone.

    Wow.
     
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  8. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    C'mon Golem; you just diminish the value of your points, when you refuse to admit the truth-- Pycchia got cha. While I have a much different set of values, & way of seeing things, than you do @Pycchia, I will complement how you'd so efficiently, if obviously, set up your trap; and how well you'd gaged your opponent, to know that he would just walk right in & take the bait, anyway!

    Since I do not have the onerous burden of defending Golem's Ego, I will respond as I feel he could have, had he followed his own advice about "research and facts," which I would disagree with, anyway, as it was stated; though I would agree with him, on the importance of having a credible basis, for things that one regards as largely factual, or probably so, when it comes to political or, in mixed company, to social topics.

    Golem could have admitted that yes, humans feel more comfortable around others who they regard as akin to themselves, in their world view, and outlook on life. But this is a weakness, man has inherited from evolution, because the vast majority of that time was spent in relatively small, cooperative groups, packs, tribes-- we were psychologically geared for this type of situation, before our collectives could even be truly called, without exaggeration, "communities," at least as we think of that term today.

    But the point is that, in those small bands, what was most successful, in dealing with the survival scenarios the world was constantly throwing at us, was not a deliberate and inclusive process of debate and consensus building. There was a defined leader, perhaps a small hierarchy, and when a leader made a decision, everyone needed to jump on board, in support of it, with no second- guessing.

    The thing is, we are no longer in that same position, as a species, so we are dealing-- not particularly well-- with
    modern circumstances, using our outdated, hominid software. IOW, just because this is the natural reaction, doesn't make it the best one.

    For example, part of this behavioral complex, is the instinctual urge, when threatened, to rally around the leader. Once upon a time, this made perfect sense since, if the group was dealing with an intrusive Saber-toothed Tiger, the leader's fate was most likely entwined with that of everyone else; we faced a common consequence, either good or bad. But today's leaders, do not need share the same prosperity or loss, with each person in their nation. So now, it makes much more sense, to consider well the results of, for example, going to war, before just blindly obeying our leader. Do you not agree with this? If so, then you must admit that, at least in principle, what I am suggesting, is possibly of merit, even if you may not personally agree.

    I view our clinging to just the like minded around us, as a self- limiting urge, much like a child, afraid of meeting new people, or of learning to swim (or fill in your own example of trying something the child is not naturally comfortable with but, if he has the nerve to become comfortable, through effort, and experience, it will greatly enrich his life).





     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
  9. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Where did I say "Impossible"? Now that took some mental gymnastics to see that, a known characteristic of the DNC!

    I see it like this Golem, someone has to be the giver in a friendship, especially in a political discussion! Like I say, friends, I'd rather play to their ego than cause a rift over something so petty to start with! I'm sure your friend see's it my way too :)

    Post enlarged to scan closer for the word or reference to "POSSIBLE or IMPOSSIBLE"! If the word is found please contact me here!
    Tips on how to help Democrats and Republicans have a better relationship | Page 3 | PoliticalForum.com - Forum for US and Intl Politics
    Thnx in advance!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
  10. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Listening to many on the other side, it's hard to discuss facts when one side has very few of them, because their bias news isn't giving them the facts. Here is a demonstration of what I mean. Does this look like people are getting most of the facts from the likes of CNN, NBC, CBS and etc? This is the coverage on Trump. This is why most Liberals can't tell you even two good things Trump has done. All they hear is mostly negative.



    upload_2022-9-21_19-43-3.png
     
  11. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Right. And you consider links, direct quotes and references a "dodge", and find denying what you see with your own eyes "informative". Now we know what you mean by "entertaining"
     
  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not sure what you mean about it having to do with cohesion. But it certainly is mutable.
     
  13. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    No idea... but it is curious how you so quickly surmise that every word in a post is about YOU.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I read your whole post, and I'm not sure I understand your point. So I picked the above statement because I think it's correct. If you limit yourself to the like-minded, you limit yourself to never being anything better. Cultural iversity is the ONLY way we evolve culturally. Just like genetic diversity is the only way we evolve "genetically".

    What I'm confused about is what that has to do with the post you quoted. The poster proposes eliminating diversity. Besides the fact that you correctly state why this would be a bad idea, my question is how he/she plans to do that. All attempts ever made in history have failed. But not before millions die.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  15. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    what the hell makes you think Republicans want a relationship with the same people that are trying to sexually groom their kids? The division exists for a reason!
    There will be no peace
     
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  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Just curious... Can YOU tell me two good things Trump has done?

    I'm assuming you mean objectively "good". And not things you personally like.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  17. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    I was not agreeing with @Pycckia's viewpoint, as should have been abundantly clear. However, you had suggested that the only way to improve the relationship between Dems & Republicans, was to base all our statements & opinions on research, and so called, "fact," as if that is something unchanging, or as if it is invalid for anyone to see the mistake in current beliefs, until enough of the mainstream has finally had the same realization, at which point, only, we can discard wrong facts, and accept the new ones. But don't get hung up on my "facts," argument, or even on the fact, that it is utterly unrealistic to expect people, en masse, to change the way, they process information. Otherwise, why not just go full tilt into the idea, and recommend that the Earth mimic the fictional planet Vulcan, and adopt a philosophy based solely on logic?

    But, to continue my explanation, Pycckia did just what you'd said, would avoid problems: he quoted a scientific study which undergirds his own way of looking at things, and discredits your own. I think you should have taken this as proof that your initial suggestion, had not been thought out, fully. In this instance, for example, I agree with your overall opinion, but I recognize, as should you, that this view is based on an
    aspiration, for our improvement, not on current "facts."

    It, however, comes across as very hypocritical-- and not at all in the spirit of better communications-- for you to refuse to admit any problems with your initial postulation, while simultaneously: 1) telling Pycckia that his opinion, which conformed with what you were advocating, was wrong and that 2) your own perspective, which was in contradiction with facts about this flaw of human beings, a propensity to bigotry, was nonetheless, still the right one.

    You should either acknowledge that there are things other than "facts," which can be a reasonable basis for an opinion, or else stick to your own prescribed method, IMO.
     
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  18. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Actually, evolution occurs in isolation. Two sets of a species are geographically isolated and evolve into different species. The same with cultures.

    Anyway, why do you want culture to evolve? It is fine the way it is. And progressives seem hellbent on destroying White culture, or whiteness as they call it. I think whiteness is the highest expression of humanity and progressives want to erase it because it makes other cultures look bad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  19. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    It was. And that's why I was confused as to why you chose THAT post to respond to.

    Oh... I see. You WERE responding to a different post. It completely threw me off.

    Nobody said facts couldn't change. If they change, they change. When it changes THAT is now the fact. Change is not something that happens randomly.

    I'm not talking about beliefs. I'm talking about facts. What follows appears to be some more about your previous statement regarding facts changing. Facts don't change randomly. They change for a reason. Trump was President in 2020, that was a fact in 2020. Today that fact has changed. Change is not always that obvious, but regardless of the subtleties, the same principle applies to the new fact. No idea where you get that facts can't change from ANYTHING I wrote.


    No it doesn't! No wonder I couldn't understand anything you were saying. You made an incorrect assumption.


    The study appears to show (or the part he quoted, at least) that people of different ethnicities don't get along well. I have no reason or need to dispute that at this point. So, assuming that's the case, the solution I propose is to increase tolerance through education (I provided specific examples). But I don't know what his is, so I'm trying to find out if it would have something to do with forced relocation or ethnic cleansing. Or maybe the government choosing who you are allowed or not allowed to procreate with. None of which has EVER worked. And he/she has refrained from responding.

    Do YOU have one?

    Right now it sounds like mine is better than any of the above.


    Looks like the rest of your post is based on the above false assumption that anything in his quote contradicts what I said. So I'll await your response instead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  20. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lucky, your points are good ones, and accurate as applies to life in general. Unfortunately, I don't think they apply when the relationship is adversarial, and at least one side has dismissed the values of honor in the pursuit of victory. Adversarial basically is a situation where in order for me to win, you must lose. A boxing match, or a poker game. In a partnership, for me to win, my partner must also win.
    Partnerships allow rational discussions and compromise, because both of the common ground and mutual recognition of problems. When it's adversary, offering to be reasonable is like the boxer dropping his left and giving his opponent the opportunity to hammer him. Some games are partnerships with some adversarial aspects- like baseball. The game is adversarial competition, but the league and sport are partnerships, nobody is destroyed; they compete for rank of position every time they play. Politics should be that way, because all of us regardless of our political preference are Americans, and we will win or lose together in the end.

    While we should all see ourselves as partners in America, so long as some of us insist on maintaining the adversarial perception in politics with the objective of crushing and permanently destroying the opposition- no partnership is possible. Behavior must be controlled by rules, because the self-regulating control of good character is not present in some of those playing the game. Those rules must be fair, must apply equally to all- and most of all, they must be enforced.... Promptly, firmly. This is why sports have umpires and referees- people without skin in the game, over-seeing the game with the power to remove those who violate the fundamental principals of the game. Our political system does not have that, and the ugly examples being set by unprincipled leaders today is eroding the principals of the citizens everywhere. Changing which rules will be respected, as convenient....

    Our system of government is designed around rules, starting with the constitution- but while it has some provisions for supporting it's rules, it lacks the mechanisms, and the weakness there allows the rules to be ignored- making them cosmetic. The number of people in government now readily willing to violate the rules to win the game is large enough that reason and compromise, the recognition and value of mutual rights and respect, has become large enough they can dictate how the game will be played.

    If an honorable person must play the game with others will not support the rules, and that is allowed- then there ARE NO RULES.
    My choice would be to not play that way, but we aren't able to leave the game.
    IF we play by our rules, we will lose every time. That leaves only one option- learning to cheat more skillfully than those who set out to destroy you.

    That is the political scene today. Until the rules of honor are enforced at the top, there will be none anywhere.

    So long as we allow the adversarial people to ignore the rules of the game of partnership, there will be no game of partnership.
    When we enforce those rules, when we make the partnership the only way to play- that will change. This doesn't mean we exclude anyone arbitrarily, it simply says if you will not respect the rules of the game- you are out of the game. There MUST be enforcement and consequence. Not anger, not irrational rants, but the suspension from participation in positions of responsibility and governance if you won't follow the rules.

    On the personal basis, it's no different that not allowing disruptive people in your home or life- you simply refuse to play their game. Your mother told you to be careful who you hang out with....not to run with a bad crowd.
     
  21. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, in our new world of 'alternate facts', we can't even agree upon what a 'fact' is anymore. Anything that disproves the facts of one side is labeled as 'fake news'.
     
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  22. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He started child care funding for single mothers, Work and the Cost of Child Care | The White House
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    I have a lot more if you'd like to see them. My question is why you don't know of any of them? I'll changge that. Why is it most Liberals know none of this?

     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  23. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Speciation occurs in isolation. But I'm not referring to THAT evolution. I meant "evolve" as in "progress".

    No! It's not! Science (which is part of culture), for example, needs to evolve in MANY areas if humanity is to survive. Other areas of culture would eventually die: music, art, literature, ... The Beatles are a great band, but you might not be happy listening to versions of "She loves you yeah yeah yeah" for generations to come. You might enjoy elements of Hispanic and African music too.

    But your statement is VERY telling. Some used to say "why do I need to learn to drive when I can walk to work just fine"

    Perfect example of backward thinking!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  24. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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  25. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm confident that this is only one part of ONE side and that it's temporary. I don't know how long it will take, but I truly think we'll get over this "Post-Truth Era" that Trump got us into.
     
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