To impeach or not to impeach, that is the question

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sandy Shanks, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trumpets have given up again. That was easy. Why? They are backing a loser, and they know it.
     
  2. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sandy, have you ever noticed how alt lefties never tire of admiring their own shadow? Righties say please impeach tomorrow. It's the alt lefties worrying why people won't defend Trump that make me laugh
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
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  3. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why is it Trump's fans don't defend him? Why is it Trump doesn't defend himself? Instead, he cries that the Democrats won't allow him to defend himself, which, of course, is a lie. He is the one who won't allow defense witnesses to testify.

    Answer the two questions. I guess you won't or can't, and neither will anyone else. 99% of Trump's fans want nothing to do with this thread.

    I wonder why.

    No, I don't.
     
  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    As he will remain your President until at least January 2021 - he doesn't need it.
    99% of the people reading this thread laugh at the idea your anti-Trump trolling requires a response.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019 at 1:51 PM
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  5. therooster

    therooster Well-Known Member

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    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...rospect-of-election-year-supreme-court-battle
    Were getting another one ... yea
     
  6. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    :banana::clapping::roflol:

    Another Trump voter. One can always tell.

    He violated our laws. He asked for foreign interference in our Presidential election. He used bribery to try to get what he wanted.

    This is from the transcript of the July 25 phone call between Trump and Zelensky. It was provided by the White House. The following is a quote from Trump.

    Good because I· heard you had a prosecutor who· was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General.· :Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States,· the woman., was bad news and the people she was dealing with in.the Ukraine.were bad news so I jtist want to_let you know that. The other thing, there's a lot of.talk about Biden's son,. that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me.

    “What you’re describing is a quid pro quo,” asserted a reporter. “We do that all the time,” replied [Trump's chief of staff] Mulvaney. “Did he also mention to me the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about it. But that’s it. That’s why we held up the money … I have news for everybody: Get over it. There’s going to be political influence in foreign policy.” http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/mulvaney-ukraine-get-over-it.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019 at 1:59 PM
  7. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    This has been supported by a number of foreign service professionals who have worked for both Republican and Democratic administrations along with a political appointee hand picked by Trump, Sondland.

    In the Senate trial, if the House impeaches, I have no idea how Trump's lawyers will be able to defend Trump. Will they call witnesses in Trump's White House to support him? I doubt it. They will only incriminate Trump more.

    I think Trump's lawyers will just bring up the same old B.S. and rely on Republican Senators not removing a Republican President even though everyone will know Trump is guilty of the impeachment charges, asking for foreign interference in our Presidential election and attempting to use bribery.
     
  8. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Donor

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    Off topic again Sandy. FOCUS!!!!
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    :banana::clapping::roflol:
     
  11. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    You give names but not specifics. There's a wide diversity among the names you cite here. What are your concerns?
     
  12. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it's been my experience that conservatives are generally much less aware of, or accepting of, differences of opinion. Liberals are generally much more open to diverse opinions, diverse ethnicities, diverse races, diverse religious beliefs, or any other category you want to mention. I guess you're right, Liberals do have difficulty understanding anyone's thinking that excludes everyone different from themselves, & considers them of lesser or of no value, & unworthy of consideration. I hate to say it--or even consider the possibility--that millions of Americans think like Trump within themselves. I always thought all Americans valued individual rights, regardless of their party affiliations. Individual rights to me, means the right of every individual to be himself or herself, so long as they don't impose on the rights of others around them. That means the right to think, act & be different from others around you. Trump challenges everyone who even hints at differing from him. He belittles them, degrades them, devalues them & attacks them openly & personally in ways that would offend anyone who values individual rights. Yet, one third of our nation's population supports Trump & his obscenities without question. Truth or facts simply don't matter to these mindless lemmings. It's as far from my concept of being an American as one can get.
     
  13. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing here changes the fact your anti-trump tolling demands no response, and that Trump will remain your President until at least January 2021.
     
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    You really went out of your way to make my point. Sometimes it's just too easy.

    The fact that I understand how the mind of a leftist works and why they support who they do far better than anyone on the left can for someone on the right kind of says it all. The truth is, I'm far more likely to be open to "to diverse opinions, diverse ethnicities, diverse races, diverse religious beliefs, or any other category you want to mention," simply because I can put myself in the mind and shoes of the leftist far better than you can to someone on the right.

    Here's my secret: I live in your world, but you don't live in mine. The mass media, the government, academia, news coverage, entertainment...they are all on your side and all support your worldview, so you've likely never had to struggle to understand another viewpoint and ideas. Someone on the right likely has to deal with that constantly. Your entire post of yours that I'm replying to is a monument to your inability to empathize with anyone who doesn't think like you.

    I just wish you were as open minded as I am, but given your bubble, I doubt you would even understand what I'm talking about.
     
  15. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    He wants to change the subject. Like all of Trump's fans, he doesn't dare address the evidence in the impeachment inquiry or what Trump will or will not do.
     
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  16. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Guardian reports, "President Donald Trump and his lawyers will not participate in a congressional impeachment hearing this week, the White House has said, citing a lack of “fundamental fairness”.

    "Trump’s aides responded defiantly on Sunday to the first of two crucial deadlines he faces in Congress this week as Democrats prepare to shift the focus of their impeachment inquiry from fact-finding to the consideration of possible charges of misconduct over his dealings with Ukraine.

    "White House counsel Pat Cipollone wrote to committee chairman Jerrold Nadler, according to a copy of a letter seen by Reuters: “We cannot fairly be expected to participate in a hearing while the witnesses are yet to be named and while it remains unclear whether the judiciary committee will afford the president a fair process through additional hearings.'"

    This was pretty much expected. Trump won't send his own witnesses -- Mulvaney, Bolton, Perry, Giuliani -- to the Senate trial, either. Why? Because they will incriminate him in cross-examination by the House's lawyers. In the Senate trial Trump will depend on Trump Republicans not remove him from office.

    Trump is leading the GOP over the cliff. Where Republicans are concerned, it will be a massacre. 23 have already quit. Similar to 2018, a record number of Republicans in Congress will call it quits. They have had it with Trump.
     
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Your blathering has nothing to do with my comment. You really can't focus.
     
  18. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Guilty as charge. The thread concerns the impeachment inquiry. I was trying to get you back on topic, but you refuse to discuss impeachment and the evidence against Trump. You keep trying to change the course of this thread.

    That is the only way to defend your boy, but it is not very effective. Why? because it reveals a severe weakness. There is no way anyone can defend Trump.
     
  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    As previously mentioned, he doesn't need defense, this whole thing is a farce, just like your crazy Russia collusion conspiracy theory that you're still wedded to.
     
  20. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    USA Today reports, "House Republicans drafted a report to counter Democratic arguments for the impeachment of President Donald Trump for his dealings with Ukraine.

    "Republicans wrote in a 123-page draft report that the evidence doesn’t support accusations of pressure or that Trump tried to cover up his conversation with Zelensky. Trump released a summary of the July 25 call on Sept. 25 and has argued that he was justified in encouraging an investigation because of widespread corruption in Ukraine."

    The only problem with that is that in his April 21 phone call and his July 25 phone call, Trump never mentioned general corruption in Ukraine, only the possible, unexplained corruption of Hunter Biden, his main rival's son. https://apnews.com/92fd8a4743e8447a8f8a7ec301ebe993

    The GOP report largely claims there is no evidence of Trump's crimes. “The evidence presented does not prove any of these Democrat allegations, and none of the Democrats’ witnesses testified to having evidence of bribery, extortion, or any high crime or misdemeanor,” said the draft report from Republican Reps. Devin Nunes of California on the Intelligence Committee, Jim Jordan of Ohio on the Oversight and Reform Committee and Michael McCaul of Texas on the Foreign Affairs Committee. "The fundamental disagreement apparent in the Democrats’ impeachment inquiry is a difference of world views and a discomfort with President Trump’s policy decisions."

    The last is a crock. The House Intelligence Committee has been very specific in its charges against Trump, and none of it has to do with Trump's policies.

    Also, Trump incriminated himself when he held up the military aid approved by Congress days before the July 25 call. Then, when Zelensky expressed interest in buying Javelins, Trump immediately replied, "I would like you to do us a favor, though."

    The GOP defense is ridiculous, although I agree with them in one instance. Trump did not say, "President Zelensky, I am going to ask your government to interfere in our Presidential election for my personal benefit, then I will bribe you to provide incentive."

    The report said there was nothing wrong with this request.

    "None of the Democrats’ witnesses testified to having evidence of bribery, extortion, or any high crime or misdemeanor.” That is a lie. Several witnesses corroborated the extortion, but they didn't have to. Trump's chief of staff admitted that the money was held up to get Zelensky to investigate what Trump wanted investigated. The he told the nation, "Get over it." The GOP report made no mention of Mulvaney.

    USA Today continues, "The report noted that Trump has a right to block witnesses and documents from being provided because the inquiry has been “an unfair, abusive, and partisan process, and does not constitute obstruction of a legitimate impeachment inquiry.'"

    Republicans say this a lot. There is only one problem. They never say why the impeachment inquiry "does not constitute obstruction of a legitimate impeachment inquiry." Neither does this report. Trump Republicans just say it, and we are supposed to believe it on their say so alone.

    This is a perfunctory defense of Trump because Nunes, Jordan, and McCall all know Trump is guilty as charged, and they are relying on Trump's flunkies in the Senate to exonerate him. Trump isn't even sending his lawyers to the hearings to defend him. Why bother? He is guilty.
     
  21. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Rep. Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said the GOP's impeachment rebuttal report was "intended for an audience of one."

    “The minority’s rebuttal document, intended for an audience of one, ignores voluminous evidence that the President used the power of his office to pressure Ukraine into investigating his political rival by withholding military aid and a White House meeting the President of Ukraine desperately sought. In so doing, the President undermined our national security and the integrity of our elections," Schiff said, adding “Tellingly, the minority dismisses this as just part of the President’s ‘outside the beltway’ thinking. It is more accurately, outside the law and constitution, and a violation of his oath of office.”

    In other words, Republicans are arguing Trump doesn't know how to talk, and he really didn't mean what he said.

    They have been saying that about Trump for three years. Obviously, Republicans think Trump is stupid.
     
  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    What is so remarkable about that idea? Are you suggesting that Donald Trump IS NOT stupid?
     
  23. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fox's Judge Andrew Napolitano thinks Trump made a mistake.

    Ahead of this week’s House Judiciary Committee hearing on the Trump impeachment inquiry, Napolitano said that in his view, Trump's actions with regards to Ukraine were “clearly impeachable, because it involves two potential crimes,” namely bribery and campaign finance violations.

    “They are free to say that’s not an impeachable offense,” he argued, “but they are not free to say it didn’t happen, because the evidence that it happened is overwhelming.” That would include Trump's own incriminating statements and that of his chief of staff.

    Meanwhile, Trump and his legal team are declining to make arguments under oath, announcing that they will not be participating in the hearings. Napolitano thinks that is a mistake, too. “I think the President would be very unwise not to send lawyers there. I think he makes a mistake when he refuses to participate,” explaining that his lawyers would be able to make arguments on his behalf and call additional witnesses to defend him.

    On the other hand, what does a person do when he is guilty. We are probably seeing the consequences of that conundrum.
     
  24. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Ignore lunatics prattling on the internet for starters. On the other hand that is a good idea innocent or guilty.
     
  25. PPark66

    PPark66 Active Member

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    The question is remove or not. Given we don’t have all the information so it’s likely worse than what is publicly known I’d prefer some sort of punishment, maybe 40 smash’s with a sledgehammer?
     

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