To impeach or not to impeach, that is the question

"Clearly" is in the mind of the beholder. If the word "foreign" was used somewhere in the call, that's close enough for impeachment for some.

 

Perhaps you didn't know. Ukraine is not an American possession. It is a foreign power.

Why don't you and your friends deal with post 126?

 

The public part of the impeachment inquiry begins. Today the House released full transcripts from the depositions of former Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch and former top State Department aide Michael McKinley, who recently resigned in protest.

A questioner asked McKinley whether it was fair to say he resigned in part because he couldn’t be blind to using the State Department to dig up dirt on a political opponent.

“That is fair,” he said, adding: “And if I can underscore, in 37 years in the Foreign Service and different parts of the globe and working on many controversial issues, I had never seen that.”

There wasn't much in the two depositions of minor figures in all this, but it was clear in both that Pompeo is more interested in protecting Trump than engaging in his state department business, part of which is supporting the people in the state department like Yovanovitch and McKinley.

 

Still waiting.

 

Because post 126 relates a fantasy.

 

If anyone in the admin who has been called to testify had credible info knocking down ANYTHING that's been revealed by the impeachment inquiry Trump would drive them to the Hill himself. They don't...........so he stonewalls.

 

The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

 

You actually think your smoking gun is the President asking the Ukraine to cooperate with the attorney general? And where's the quid pro quo?

OK then, do it! Roll this out as your impeachment charge. Let's see if you're Democratic Congress votes to impeach on this.

DO IT!

 

Trumpets argue this part of the conversation does not exist, and Trump's chief of staff, Mulvaney, didn't confirm quid pro quo was used.

You see, Lee, according to them, none of this has happened. Trump says the same thing. "The call was perfect."

Trump is going down and he is going to take the GOP with him because they make the same ludicrous argument, or ignore the evidence entirely arguing the impeachment clause of our Constitution is a "sham."

 

"The people" exercise their "sovereignty" via Congress. That's why it is called a "republic" - i.e. a representative democracy. National sovereignty rest with the legislature, not with the President, who is carries out the will of the people via Congress.

I would say removal from office via conviction upon impeachment is the ultimate control of presidential powers. Once removed, the former president may or may not be indicted on criminal charges dependent on the reasons for his dismissal. "High crimes and misdemeanors" was a term used primarily for the removal of high ranking political officers for their political abuse of power. IOW, it may be for anything the legislative branch holds, by a simple majority in the House and a two-thirds majority in the Senate. The branches are "equal" in that they have their separate responsibilities, but NOT in political power. In political power, the legislative branch is supreme, provided of course, that it has sufficient majorities.

 

Facing perjury charges based on his earlier testimony, political appointee and Trump loyalist, U.S. ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, revised his testimony so it conforms with other testimony, including that of the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Bill Taylor. The revised testimony from the generous GOP donor and hotel magnate adds to the volume of evidence against Trump.

In a significant revision to his earlier testimony before House impeachment investigators, Sondland now says he told a Ukrainian official that security assistance to the country would only resume if the authorities in Kiev opened investigations requested by Trump and potentially damaging to former vice president Joe Biden.

Sondland’s “supplemental declaration,” provided to the House impeachment inquiry, offered further evidence of an effort directed by Trump and his personal attorney, Rudolph W. Giuliani, to tie nearly $400 million in security assistance to investigations that could politically benefit the President.

His earlier assertion that Trump didn’t seek a “quid pro quo” of security assistance in return for investigations has now been reversed. He admits now that the military aid was contingent upon Ukraine's cooperation regarding investigations of the Bidens.

In a Tuesday statement, White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said that Sondland’s updated testimony shows how “there is even less evidence for this illegitimate impeachment sham than previously thought.”

Has the Trump White House lost its reading comprehension ability? They live in their own little world where black is white and night is day.

 

The Post reports, "Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Tuesday that he would not be reading two newly released deposition transcripts, calling the Democratic-led impeachment probe a “bunch of BS.”

"Graham’s comments came hours after House investigators released transcripts of the depositions of Gordon Sondland, ambassador to the European Union, and Kurt Volker, former U.S. special envoy to Ukraine."

Can you believe it? Graham will not read sworn testimony from two of Trump's staffers?

No doubt about it. Republicans are losing it.

 

The Hill reports, "Volker said he was never aware of any interest by Trump in Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company, and that he only learned of Trump’s desire for investigations linked to former Vice President Joe Biden when he read the transcript of the president’s July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky when it was released last month. [Note: Burisma was code for Bidens. Hunter was on the board.]

"Volker also said he was troubled and surprised when he read the transcript, describing it as “unfortunate” for U.S. policy in Ukraine. Volker said it was easy to see how the call would become “explosive” in U.S. domestic politics."

“It creates a problem again where all of the things that we’re trying to do to advance the bilateral relationship, strengthen our support for Ukraine, strengthen the positioning against Russia is now getting sucked into a domestic political debate in the U.S., domestic political narrative that overshadows that,” Volker said.

“And I think that is extremely unfortunate for our policy with Ukraine,” he said.

However, in one respect Volker was in the dark. He said he was not aware of any U.S. officials communicating to Ukraine that the aid was being withheld for a specific reason. Indeed, Volker said he was never aware of a reason for the hold up.

 

Of course, that matter is cleared up in Trump's July 25 phone call to Zelensky. Trump gave the reason for the "hold up."

"I would like you to do us a favor though." Top of page 3, https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...elensky/4b228f51-17e7-45bc-b16c-3b2643f3fbe0/

Reader will also find this in the transcript of the July 25 call.

Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General.· :Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The other thing, there's a lot of.talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me.

A lot of people, including Trump himself, have overlooked that part of the phone call.

 

In all due respect 85% of what you say is flat out wrong. The sole correct statement was, "removal from office via conviction upon impeachment is the ultimate control of presidential powers" though it should say ultimate and only control.
The people exercise their sovereignty at the ballot box, not through congress. A republic means that the people have ultimate authority and rights, not the federal government as per Amendment X.
"High crimes and misdemeanors" does not refer to the level of the person being impeached, but to the magnitude of the wrong doing. It was intended by the framers to mean egregious wrong doings against the country or the people -- an extreme violation of the basic trust. Impeachment criteria is not whatever the House decides what it is (Gerald Ford not withstanding), at least constitutionally. The hazard with this is of course there is no recourse or checks against an unconstitutional impeachment by the House other than martial law.
Separate but equal means, and must mean, equal political power, albeit the three branches have their own responsibilities. Constitutionally equal political power is not dependent on a political parties representation in congress.

 

Imagine that, a Democrat won in a Republican bastion, Kentucky. A Democrat won in a state won by Trump by 30 percentage points. A Democrat won in Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's state. A Democrat won in Rand Paul's state.

Trump is going down and he is going to take the GOP with him unless Republicans grow a brain.

Democrats gained control of both houses of the Virginia General Assembly on Tuesday, tapping strength in the suburbs to consolidate power for the first time in a generation and deliver a rebuke to President Trump, the Post.

A disastrous day for the GOP. The question is, will they learn anything from it? Simply saying the impeachment inquiry is a sham, a Soviet style inquisition will not do. Our Constitution provides for impeachment and gives unconditional control to the House. Ridiculing the impeachment process is ridiculing our Constitution, and voters know that.

Saying Trump did nothing wrong when he asked for foreign interference in our Presidential election will not do.

Saying that requesting foreign interference in our Presidential election is not an impeachable offense will not do.

Saying there is no quid pro quo when members of Trump's own staff, including his chief of staff, have admitted there was quid pro quo will not do.

Republicans either learn from all this or die (in political terms).

 

Totally partisan and it started with impeachment from day one and the dem clown show is still trying to find a reason.

 

As best I can see, the House has four and only four obligations or must-do duties. 1.meet in session once a year. 2. choose their speaker. 3. judge elections. 4. keep a journal

 

Aren't they up to about 69 by now?????

 

I just finished watching my customary Fox News segment of today's news. It is interesting that Trump's fans are smart enough not to use the arguments mentioned on Fox. They are meant for a television audience that cannot talk back, and are quite useless.

Of course, one could argue, what can anyone say in defense of Trump?

 

The top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine, Bill Taylor, told House impeachment investigators last month that Trump directed officials to tie military aid to Ukraine to demands that the country open politically advantageous probes for him, according to a transcript of his testimony made public today.

It also contains new details about the language Taylor used in describing the White House's attempted quid pro quo with Ukraine that shed light on his level of concern about the matter.

For example, Taylor said he and others "sat in astonishment" as a White House Office of Management and Budget official said during a July 18 inter-agency call that Trump had ordered a hold on military assistance to Ukraine, according to the transcript.

Taylor stated in plain and clear language that he felt the military aid to Ukraine had been directly tied to Ukraine opening investigations into the Burisma energy company — .code for Hunter Biden and his father, Trump's likely political opponent in November of next year — as well as a conspiracy theory about alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election.

"That was my clear understanding, security assistance money would not come until the president [of Ukraine] committed to pursue the investigation," Taylor said, according to the transcript.

It doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

Not a peep out of Trump's fans.

Of course, that was expected. They deal only in the extraneous. They rarely deal with reality.

Trump's statements above are reality.

 

I am a card-carrying Republican. So, why am I celebrating Democratic victories over Trump supported Republicans?

Because it is my firm belief that the best thing that could happen to the Republican Party is Trump's removal, either by impeachment or the November vote in 2020. I prefer the latter because I don't think the former will work. Impeachment would be a waste of time, money, and energy while weakening both parties and further dividing the nation.

Trump is the worst thing that ever happened to the GOP, and the mindless President proves it every day. As shown in several threads, his supporters can't even defend him.

What does that say about his supporters?

 

Washington (AFP) - President Donald Trump's son published on Wednesday the name of the alleged anonymous whistleblower whose complaint fired the impeachment inquiry against Trump, breaking strict conventions for protecting officials who reveal wrongdoing in government.

Amid calls by the president himself to expose the whistleblower, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted the name of a CIA analyst which has circulated online for weeks, and linked to a Breitbart news article implying the person was pro-Democrat and anti-Trump.

AFP could not independently verify the whistleblower's identity and is not publishing the name.

https://news.yahoo.com/impeachment-trumps-son-tweets-name-alleged-whistleblower-154514188.html

Laws, rules, "strict conventions" mean nothing to the Trump's. They are rogue politicians, and their diminishing base loves them for it. To hell with the rule of law. They sent Trump to Washington to create chaos at the highest levels of our government, and they could not be happier.

Want proof? Read their posts.

 

I was really hoping someone would use that Fox argument which is also being used by Jordan and Meadows. It is ridiculous. That is why no one but you has used the argument.

Taylor was not a member of Trump's cabinet. He was the ambassador to Ukraine. Rarely do ambassadors speak directly to the President. Taylor's immediate bosses are the senior members of the state department. That is where Taylor gets his information and his instructions.

Are you saying there is no chain of command in the Trump White House? Are you saying the only acceptable evidence is from the accused, Trump? We know the Congressionally approved military aid was held up a few days before the July 25 phone call. Are you saying someone other than the President had the power to do that? Are you saying the information Taylor got from his chain of command is meaningless? If that is the case, then the Trump government is far more chaotic than many thought.

Yet that is the fallacious argument desperate Trump Republicans and Fox are using.

"Instead, he said he was basing much of his testimony on what former United States Special Representative for Ukraine Negotiations Kurt Volker and Sondland told him."

Taylor said he and others "sat in astonishment" as a White House Office of Management and Budget official said during a July 18 inter-agency call that Trump had ordered a hold on military assistance to Ukraine.

"That was my clear understanding, security assistance money would not come until the president [of Ukraine] committed to pursue the investigation," Taylor said.

What did Trump say? "I would like you to do us a favor though. The other thing, there's a lot of.talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me."

You can't get anymore direct than that.