To Put Your Existence in Perspective

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by longknife, Nov 20, 2014.

  1. longknife

    longknife New Member

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  2. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    "Gen 32:12 And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude."

    I would venture to guess that "cannot be numbered" would indicate that mankind is pretty great in the universe wherein the stars have been guessed as a suggested definite number.
     
  3. anomaly

    anomaly Active Member

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    I've noticed that when dealing with the bible and it's many verses a "venture to guess" is as good as it gets.
    And with so many guessing it is no surprise that there are tens of thousands of differing guesses resulting in tens of thousands of variations of christianity.
     
  4. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    Then there are more thousands of other religions, just as valid.
     
  5. anomaly

    anomaly Active Member

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    In my opinion they all carry the same validity... none!
     
  6. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    Has it occurred to you that the intention of the Bible may be to encourage thought?
     
  7. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, and given that consciousness is present, and it allows us to be aware of this vast universe is nothing short of a miracle. For consciousness is not needed, yet its there. Just another one of those things that arose from randomness, without any higher intelligence involved. There are almost an infinite amount of lucky coincidences in this universe. It takes a great leap of faith to believe in the role of randomness. Much more than it takes to believe in a Creator. And yet the atheists who try to use science, will never admit it. I think it really is just a problem with overinflated egos, more than anything else.
     
  8. anomaly

    anomaly Active Member

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    That would be against what every christian I've meet has told me the intention was, which they have all claimed the intention was to impart the infallible word of god.

    Seems to me that if you are imparting the truth of the one true god you would write it a little more clearly so that interpretation , or guessing, wasn't necessary.
     
  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    yes, ebola, war, cancer, drought, malaria, human greed, and starving children are incredibly lucky. how could stupid atheists not see the marvellous hand of god in all this?

    must be those over inflated egos. you know, those egos not demanding immortality in a golden palace, hanging out with the creator of the universe and eating peeled grapes.
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    just yesterday a theist here claimed no good can come of thinking, and that same was best left to atheists.
     
  11. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    That is your interpretation of what he said. You have no proof.
     
  12. longknife

    longknife New Member

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    I truly did not want this to be a discussion of religions.

    Comparing ourselves to the universe in general is simply a personal view of the unbelievably immense place where we live.
     
  13. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    This is exactly what I think causes certain people to turn away. Some people can not handle thought, they require binary answers either on or off, yes or no, good or bad, etc..

    Some people make the Bible try to fit that mold, but that's an impossibility.

    If the Bible were to list all of the correct actions for every possible scenario it would contain an infinite amount of judgments. It would be impossible to complete and fully comprehend, as full comprehension would require an eternity.
     
  14. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    Carl Sagan put it so well. So long ago.

    [video=youtube;p86BPM1GV8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M[/video]
     
  15. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    This is one of the most profound videos I've run across when discussing this subject...

    [video=youtube;CHMIfOecrlo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHMIfOecrlo[/video]


     
  16. iJoeTime

    iJoeTime Banned

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    It's fascinating people can understand the scale the known universe yet still think there is some petty god, watching us always and fretting over the trivialities of sin.
     
  17. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are mixing in disease with what the human ego creates. Obviously reality doesn't like immortality of any species. It's seems to be an ebb and flow, a yes, no, ying, yang, birth, death. A constant dying and rebirth. But the human ego, creates those other things, for it is by its nature exclusive. And from that comes greed, and greed starves others.

    And you are right, this ego wants immortality, and will create it through religious beliefs, but it also wants to understand, to get a handle on reality, and will create science on the other hand. Both are movements of the ego.

    Yet we are to believe, according to the atheists, that all of this wonderment, the good and the bad, was just manifested from randomness. And it takes more faith to believe in that, than it does to believe in some sort of intelligent creator being involved in some way. And there is an arrogance too in the ego that believes in science, for it is assuming that it can actually get a half ass handle on reality, which encompasses this almost incomprehensible universe, that a tiny piece of meat can actually know much at all about the universe in which it isn't even a speck, when compared to the size. That is like an ant crawling up the leg of an elephant screaming, "rape!!!!!" Only the arrogance of the ant allows this. And only the arrogance of the human ego allows it to think that through science it can ever know more than a minutia about reality. Yet just like the religious, they will claim it is possible. Two peas in a pod, two egos, who are incapable of doing anything but blowing hot air.

    I find the science just as silly as religion. Except one does offer some comfort, some solace, for the ego that wants to be immortal.
     
  18. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What if that universe was being manifested from consciousness itself? That if there was no consciousness, there would be no universe? Consciousness therefore would not be a product of matter, nor in the brain, but the brain would simply be a receiver of it.

    Personally, it makes more sense to me to think of the universe as a manifestation of consciousness. Not ego consciousness, for that is just a vast bundle of memories, which we then identify with, as the real me. But the consciousness that allows the ego consciousness to manifest. A ground, a field.

    It could be that when we see the universe as so vast, it is really an infinite consciousness that we are seeing. And if so, then we are not small specks in it, but the creator of it. Again, not the ego doing it, but something much deeper, much more profound than just a bundle of experiences in memory.

    There is no way to prove that the universe manifests from consciousness, as there is no way to prove that consciousness manifests from matter. We have, or materialism has, assumed that consciousness come from matter. But no way to prove that, and it makes more sense to some of us, that the opposite is true. And the truth will set you free. It would change things, if we saw it in the way I am speaking of. It would show that we are all ONE, and we would then not be so selfish, so greedy, so self serving. I got mine, and to hell with others. It has tremendous implications, in how human beings would act.
     
  19. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No doubt amongst some it does.

    Regrettably it doesn't encourage thought in the majority as they merely accept it at face value and automatically reject criticism.
     
  20. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here's another graphic representation of what you are talking about.


    [​IMG]
     
  21. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    And when dealing with scientists we often hear them chime in with something to the effect of "well, that is the best guess we have." as an answer to some questions. Tit for tat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just like a scientists remark declaring a "best guess" would be.
     
  22. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Faith in randomness? Do I see a touch of religion being manifested in the guise of scientific thought?
     
  23. anomaly

    anomaly Active Member

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    Tit for tat? This is a game to you isn't it?

    Look I'm well aware that science can't answer every question, like it can't answer the question "Why do grown adults believe in fairies, or broom riding witches, or a god of some sort?"

    I'm Ok with Science not being able to answer these questions however if science began stating answers to these questions and then offered up a dusty old book written by bronze age goat herders as the definitive evidence to support that answer I would probably begin mocking it.
     
  24. anomaly

    anomaly Active Member

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    I have always contended that the bible is an inkblot. People see and read and interpret what they want to see, read or interpret in this book. As a result I contend that any one's interpretation of this book tells me way more about the individual doing the interpreting than it does the book it's self.
     
  25. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is! It is a game of wits and a game exercising the art of futility.

    Then it would seem that science has some limitations, huh?

    You mean like me mocking science because someone published the fact that the primary tool of science (the scientific method) is based on "assumptions"? It is ironic that the information I have brought to this forum with regard to the scientific method and its foundation was not "written by bronze age goat herders", but instead was written by educated people in this modern world.
     

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