Tolerance vs. Diversity and why Art can be Valuable

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Il Ðoge, May 7, 2017.

  1. Il Ðoge

    Il Ðoge Active Member

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    The real reason that traditions often espoused the merits of tolerance (but not the merits of diversity) is because if you can tolerate other people's viewpoints, you can avoid needing to come to grips with their unique cognitive dissonance and you can also avoid making mistakes that could be related to cognitive dissonance you have but might not be aware of. There is nothing uglier than a clash between two people's cognitive dissonance.

    Societies need tolerance to continue peacefully, or even to trade with others but they don't need "diversity". Diversity is really just putting the "cart before the horse" in regards to tolerance -- people assume that since tolerance has personal and economic value, circumstances that require tolerance (diversity) must be inherently good. The fact that diversity has become its own end goal in the socially imploding west (at least in regards to most of western Europe), often with horrible results, speaks to the fact that creating a situation in which extreme tolerance is necessary was not a good idea. Tolerance can be a reaction to things we can't change and a way to better ourselves but to confuse a treatment with the absence of a problem is a mistake. We aren't tolerant because needing to be tolerant has inherent value, we're tolerant because it's a way of coping with things that we can't fix and ameliorating not just the hubris of other people but also our own hubris.

    Tolerance then is a reaction to diversity, and often a positive one but a person shouldn't get into the habit of hurting themselves because they enjoy the cure. There will always be people who say "I am tolerant, I like everyone except those who disagree with me" while living in a bubble of their own creation, then going around trying to burst other people's bubbles because it amuses them (and makes them confident in the strength of their own bubble) but panicking if someone tries to do it back at them. It is probably better to avoid, as the saying goes, sinking to their level.

    I think it is also worth mentioning that since everyone has fundamentally unique aspects to themselves, the society in which tolerance is not needed because everyone is the same is fundamentally unattainable. This is another reason to promote the "cure" of tolerance without also promoting the "disease" of diversity. A person ultimately needs to find harmless surrogate or recreational activities that don't involve going after other people, or creating problems in an endless loop of "deliberately created problem + self-fulfilling prophecy as cure = more problem" just because it distracts you from seeing your own flaws and justifies your hunger to seek after power over others.

    One thing that art does is it can encourage a lack of diversity (through the promulgation of culture) without necessarily attacking others. In doing so the "cure" of tolerance becomes less necessary but not due to hostile action. It also gives people who may not have an immediate survival goal something that they can focus upon. Unfortunately, many hostile people who generate "cognitive dissonance loops" as I described earlier are failed artists. I personally believe that an artist doesn't fail because they are "bad" but because they actually failed to reject their own hunger for power over others. Real art can be a social experience. If they had more patience (or a greater capacity for tolerance) then art for art's sake (and not the kind that disparages people of other viewpoints) would have been good enough for them. It might be said that the end goal of both the artist and the martial ideologue are the same and the difference is only in their capacities for forms of aggression vs. their capacity for real tolerance.
     
  2. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

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    no there's nothing uglier than some one insisting that they are entitled something from others, that don't agree with them what they think or how they feel or their life style.

    if one isn't in agreement with some one then they are not entitled their agreement or vote if you will or anything else. if it is agreed then what is in the agreement is what the partakers in that agreement should have or receive according to the agreement.

    tolerance has a braking point, but a agreement can be negotiated, and followed. hence what you call "traditions" are what the people of a society agree to and have agreed to for many generations, therefore to live outside of that society's "traditions" is to disagree with that society, and in which case then the ones who disagree don't belong to the society.

    no more than a capitalist belongs in then communist Russia. there is no need for tolerance socially speaking, that's what they make boarders for.

    if you think the world around you is always wrong because it don't accept you, then maybe you are the one that's wrong. your concept may work in warm and fuzzy kiddy fairy tails but in the real world, the world owes you nothing especially if you think you deserve it. the world can take what you have and leave you powerless to do anything about it, including acceptance from others.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  3. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    I tend to have a problem with the term "tolerance". It assumes that one has a superior (at least to them) possession and merely allows someone to differ with their superiority. And extremely biased, bigoted term and most often false.
     
  4. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Art promotes a lack of diversity through a promulgation of culture? Sorry but you obviously know nothing about the history of art or perhaps to be charatable you are just paraphrasing a moron.
     
  5. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In all fairness, it is part of the propaganda mix and can be quite effective.
     
  6. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but most artists are individualists and are unlikely to be a part of any propaganda conspiracy. Of course it is probably comforting to believe that alternative opinions are part of a conspiracy onstead of being actually heartfelt opinions.
     
  7. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most artists are broke and broke people will do many things for money
     
  8. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Well perhaps you are guilty of assuming your personal ethics are representative of those of the population at large!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  9. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or maybe I know "artists" who have done many things to keep the lights turned on.
     
  10. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    One assumes by putting artists in quotes you are acknowledging that the example you may know probably are not artists in the actual sense of the word.
     
  11. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One can assume anything one wants to assume just like they assume that is the history of forever, all the propaganda pieces never involved an "artist".
     
  12. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    History of course has proven that propaganda or political pieces can certainly be considered art.
     
  13. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which was implicit in my post you took exception to :bonk:
     
  14. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Well not exactly. Art can propagandize but that doesn't actually make it part of a propaganda mix.
     

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